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3d - Printworx

Printing 3d Forum

So tell me about the CC3D controller

Started by kilby, Sunday,September 28, 2014, 21:27:25

Previous topic - Next topic

kilby

I have considered getting an cc3d for a while as I may be building another smallish machine for indoor use as a very small camera platform.

Hobbyking are producing a version and hopefully they aren';t faulty ones that have wandered out of the backdoor of the factory as some products from eBay seem to be.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__65885__Openpilot_CC3D_Flight_Controller_With_Cable_Set_Fully_Authorized.html

However the info on the capabilities if these boards is somewhat conflicted, supposedly they can make use of gps yet there';s sketchy info of what you can do with the gps capabilities.

Also can an external barometer be added as the 3D lock isn';t that accurate so a decent loiter seems improbable without a bar and RTL may be a little heavy.

Finally is it as horrible to tune ad so many posts seem to claim (or is it simply ';different';) as properly tuned one seem to be real nice.
Not much kit, but what I have I like
Armattan Tilt 2, Morphite 180, Quark 150, Decapitated NanoQX
Taranis+

flybywire

Can';t comment on the gps, or barro, but i know it';s all doable.  Setup is fairly easy with the GCS software.
As for tuning, again, i don';t think it';s massively difficult certainly using the easy setup, and both my boards were fine out of the box.
I got one from ebay, the other from HK (not the authorised one tho).
Blog: http://ajwillis303.wix.com/stuff
The spiritual home of fpv large
Keep it emax, capiche?
Hardware? sure, I got hardware!

Hands0n

I am flying a CC3D in my 250 Pro (makeitbuildit.co.uk) with both the air frame and FC bought form Phil';s on-line store.

Where do I start?  Its turned out be a delight to fly, just all the terminology is quite different in places and so it has been a bijoux learning curve.  I was hesitant about getting into this FC but good words said by others spurred me on to at least try it.  I was not to be disappointed. It is sweet.

GPS
GPS can be easily added to the CC3D, but it does not offer any sophisticated flight modes as a result.  All (?) that you really get out of the CC3D with GPS is position information via the telemetry to the OpenPilot GCS.  There is no Loiter or RTH gained as a result.

Tuning
Horrible?  No, not at all. But it is different.  The OpenPilot GUI controls everything and the terminology is different to what we are generally used to. That said, there are nice sliders that set up the PID at a macro level from Easy flight to "Insane".  And then you can tweak the PID (they don';t call it that) all you like to refine it to your wishes.  Even you are able to assign a slider or rotary knob to adjust the various gains to achieve the stability you desire.

Flight Modes
With CC3D there are three flight modes that you can use;
Attitude - this is the Stability mode of other FCs, and it works very very well indeed
Rattitude - this is Horizon mode of the Naze32 and MultiWii FCs
Rate - this is full Acro mode

HTH
--
Danny
"Its better than bad, its good"

Current FCs: Pixhawk, APM 2.6, Naza M V2, Naze32, Flip32+ CC3D, KK2.1.5
Aircraft: miniMax Hex, DJI 550 (clone) TBS Disco, 450 Firefly, 250 Pro, ZMR250, Hubsan X4, Bixler 2

flybywire

The revo board will do gps flight modes.  ~~
Blog: http://ajwillis303.wix.com/stuff
The spiritual home of fpv large
Keep it emax, capiche?
Hardware? sure, I got hardware!

Hands0n

Yeah but .. no but .. Yeah...

QuoteStatus
While the Revolution is currently a very capable flight controller, it is not yet a fully polished turnkey product. It is part of an Open Source community development effort and that is what really makes joining the Revolution exciting. There is a lot of interesting and challenging code left to write on the software side, there is also a lot of testing that needs to be performed, as well.

This community involvement is a big part of the OpenPilot project. We need you to get involved! (on the forum and the wiki). However, if you are an end user just looking to simply get in the air as fast as possible, the Revolution may not be for you at this time.

http://www.readymaderc.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2069


--
Danny
"Its better than bad, its good"

Current FCs: Pixhawk, APM 2.6, Naza M V2, Naze32, Flip32+ CC3D, KK2.1.5
Aircraft: miniMax Hex, DJI 550 (clone) TBS Disco, 450 Firefly, 250 Pro, ZMR250, Hubsan X4, Bixler 2

kilby

Their concept of open source (and price for original boards) put me off a bit. The ';different'; from other controllers doesn';t bother me at all (just need to spend some time with it)

Until checked tonight I thought that they did have a baro.

I would like something that can have a stable loiter so I can frame a shot and essentially leave the machine hanging (gps outdoors) and get a fairly stable loiter indoors (sans gps naturally)

I could do it with an apm, but I already have one on my 450.

The TauLabs software looks promising but I suspect it needs to ferment a little longer before its quite ready)
Not much kit, but what I have I like
Armattan Tilt 2, Morphite 180, Quark 150, Decapitated NanoQX
Taranis+

Hands0n

I would be inclined to suggest you have a go at using a Naze32 operating Cleanflight software (a trivial update) that does indeed support GPS and will very likely do what you want in terms of "hanging" about in the air. 

There is a Cleanflight port for the CC3D also, but I very much doubt that it will provide good support for what you want as the FC has no Baro as you';ve already discovered.

--
Danny
"Its better than bad, its good"

Current FCs: Pixhawk, APM 2.6, Naza M V2, Naze32, Flip32+ CC3D, KK2.1.5
Aircraft: miniMax Hex, DJI 550 (clone) TBS Disco, 450 Firefly, 250 Pro, ZMR250, Hubsan X4, Bixler 2

Sweet Pickle

Just ordered one for £14 from bangood uk. Needed a really cheap fc to add to all the other spares to make a working practice craft. I don';t mind a steep learning curve...software I';m prepared to drudge on with. Won';t be too troubled if I ditch this one.

DarrellW

Quote from: Sweet Pickle on Thursday,October 16, 2014, 22:58:58
Just ordered one for £14 from bangood uk. Needed a really cheap fc to add to all the other spares to make a working practice craft. I don';t mind a steep learning curve...software I';m prepared to drudge on with. Won';t be too troubled if I ditch this one.

Thinking very seriously about getting one of those, crazy cheap for what it is!
I think..........I think I am........therefore I am.............I think!

tupoar

I ordered one too for my crash test quad. Should be worth a giggle at £14.
A new way of buying and selling RC Gear.

www.rcmungo.com

Craft: RE Decker 180, RE X1, HK Thorax, Hubsan X4, Q4
FC: Naze32, Flip32, Sparky, CC3D, SP Racing F3
VRX: RCD T-Box - 40 Channel Diversity

tupoar

My board arrived today. Looking forward to playing with openflight though it';s mainly going to be used for manual.
A new way of buying and selling RC Gear.

www.rcmungo.com

Craft: RE Decker 180, RE X1, HK Thorax, Hubsan X4, Q4
FC: Naze32, Flip32, Sparky, CC3D, SP Racing F3
VRX: RCD T-Box - 40 Channel Diversity

flybywire

It';s known as ';rate mode'; in Open Pilot parlance, and you might want to try it first, it';s seriously lively! 
Blog: http://ajwillis303.wix.com/stuff
The spiritual home of fpv large
Keep it emax, capiche?
Hardware? sure, I got hardware!

Hands0n

Here';s all you need to know about OpenPilot flight modes: http://wiki.openpilot.org/display/Doc/Flight+Mode+Switch+Settings

Basically they equate thusly ...

OpenPilot vs Naze32 (or MultiWii)
Attitude = Angle
Rattitude = Horizon
Rate = Acro

AxisLock (for Yaw) is described well down that page, it is worth a read. Essentially, with the Yaw stick centered it will try and maintain the axis that the multi-rotor is flying along, making minor corrections if it deviates.
--
Danny
"Its better than bad, its good"

Current FCs: Pixhawk, APM 2.6, Naza M V2, Naze32, Flip32+ CC3D, KK2.1.5
Aircraft: miniMax Hex, DJI 550 (clone) TBS Disco, 450 Firefly, 250 Pro, ZMR250, Hubsan X4, Bixler 2

Sweet Pickle

Hmmm, might be regretting buying one now seeing as there is no.... I';ll take you gently by the hand and fly it for you whilst you cling onto the TX for dear life MODE. AKA GPS ATTI  ~~
Good job it';ll be going on my disposable spares quad.

flybywire

I';ve found that it';s very stable with default tuning on my 250 with a tad of expo, but just slide the tuning control up to tate mode and it becomes a different animal altogether, just wild!
Blog: http://ajwillis303.wix.com/stuff
The spiritual home of fpv large
Keep it emax, capiche?
Hardware? sure, I got hardware!

Hands0n

Quote from: Sweet Pickle on Saturday,October 18, 2014, 20:53:37
Hmmm, might be regretting buying one now seeing as there is no.... I';ll take you gently by the hand and fly it for you whilst you cling onto the TX for dear life MODE. AKA GPS ATTI  ~~
Good job it';ll be going on my disposable spares quad.


Once you';ve built it and done a gentle maiden my advice would be to keep it very local to you.  Don';t feel tempted to push out as far as you might fly a Naza or something else with RTL/FailSafe.  I';d say nothing more than 100meters at a complete push when you first start out. Also keep the altitude down to not much over head height so if things go pear shaped you can get it back down on the ground quickly. And probably keep it to non-windy days so it won';t blow away.

After a few flights you';ll get the hang of the CC3D and find it really is quite tame out of the box.  But as @flybywire says, tweak it up a bit and it gets a bit like an Arabian Stallion.  Mental. ::)
--
Danny
"Its better than bad, its good"

Current FCs: Pixhawk, APM 2.6, Naza M V2, Naze32, Flip32+ CC3D, KK2.1.5
Aircraft: miniMax Hex, DJI 550 (clone) TBS Disco, 450 Firefly, 250 Pro, ZMR250, Hubsan X4, Bixler 2

Sweet Pickle

Quote from: Hands0n on Saturday,October 18, 2014, 21:33:35
Once you';ve built it and done a gentle maiden my advice would be to keep it very local to you.  Don';t feel tempted to push out as far as you might fly a Naza or something else with RTL/FailSafe.  I';d say nothing more than 100meters at a complete push when you first start out. Also keep the altitude down to not much over head height so if things go pear shaped you can get it back down on the ground quickly. And probably keep it to non-windy days so it won';t blow away.

After a few flights you';ll get the hang of the CC3D and find it really is quite tame out of the box.  But as @flybywire says, tweak it up a bit and it gets a bit like an Arabian Stallion.  Mental. ::)



GULP  :help:

Hands0n

Quote from: Sweet Pickle on Saturday,October 18, 2014, 23:40:55

GULP  :help:


LOL its not as bad as that fella  :laugh:  Here';s my maiden of the 250 Pro (from makeitbuildit) which I fitted with my first ever CC3D.  The FC';s settings are all default, out of the box stylee. In this video I';m running it on Stabilise1 which is equivalent to Naze32/MultiWii Angle mode.  I did try Rattitude (Horizon) and that was livlier, fun. But thats not on this video clip.



--
Danny
"Its better than bad, its good"

Current FCs: Pixhawk, APM 2.6, Naza M V2, Naze32, Flip32+ CC3D, KK2.1.5
Aircraft: miniMax Hex, DJI 550 (clone) TBS Disco, 450 Firefly, 250 Pro, ZMR250, Hubsan X4, Bixler 2

Sweet Pickle

Just dropped the cheapie bangood controller onto my 450 ran the setup wizard without a hitch. Everything arms disarms and spins up fine. Too dark to try it out now but early indications seem good. Not sure how I';ll get on without the bells and whistles of naza but time will tell. Only thing I can';t see is the flight mode select position. I selected the toggle on the taranis during the setup....but it';s not clear which position is what. I must be blind because I can';t see it in any software screen. Had a quick flick through YouTube and all. Need to do a bit of poking around I guess  ~~
Love it though. Cheap and cheerful little project.

DarrellW

Just ordered one from Banggood - for a little project I have in mind!
I think..........I think I am........therefore I am.............I think!

DarrellW

Been doing some pre use research into what can be done with this controller and have to say I am really impressed; the software is excellent and easy to use, the firmware looks to be very use able without messing about with the pid';s initially and the support for other types of models is also very good. If only gps functions were better catered for this would definitely be my No 1!
I think..........I think I am........therefore I am.............I think!

Sweet Pickle

HOOOOOLLLLYYYYY Smoke these controllers are lively compared to the Naza. :wack0
I';ll freely admit my skills haven';t yet been honed but as I seem to be experiencing issue after issue I thought I';d get a backup quad to play with when my discovery (inevitably) gives me issues. Something cheap, cheerfull and well.. a bit different. It';s certainly that alright.
As my Discovery is yet again back in the garage for additional work I thought I';d pop out and spin the stripped down 450 about. Ermm, hows that working out for you you say? Well not good TBH. There is no self level, stability, hold blah blah with this. This is Raw flying for the Pro';s or more experienced I think. Can';t seem to get it more than 6" off the ground, and as for directionality  :huh As soon as I give it throttle it';ll pitch one way or the other and the props start to make a beeline for the grass. I thought 10 minutes in my modest garden to get a feel might do me well. Chance would be a fine thing. Think I need a radius of around 200m to avoid hitting anything.
Back to the drawing board, come back in 2 years time when you get a few more flying hours under the belt.   :shrug:

Hands0n

The CC3D does indeed have a stability mode, It is called "Attitude" mode from memory, and equates with auto-level or Stability on other FCs.  It will keep the multi-rotor level if the pitch/roll sticks are in centre.

I wonder if you';ve not got the mode change switch quite right.  The three default modes appear to be Attitude, Rattitude and Rate.  Rattitude is like Naze32';s Horizon, a bit of a hybrid between Attitude and Acro.  Rate mode in CC3D is Acro mode which would better describe the flight characteristics you mention in the post above.

I once lifted off in Rate mode on my CC3D (by accident) and promptly ditched it in the long grass nearby. Its something I';ve not yet got my reflexes around yet  :blink
--
Danny
"Its better than bad, its good"

Current FCs: Pixhawk, APM 2.6, Naza M V2, Naze32, Flip32+ CC3D, KK2.1.5
Aircraft: miniMax Hex, DJI 550 (clone) TBS Disco, 450 Firefly, 250 Pro, ZMR250, Hubsan X4, Bixler 2

philtrum

Quote from: Sweet Pickle on Saturday,October 25, 2014, 17:13:46
There is no self level, stability, hold blah blah with this. This is Raw flying for the Pro';s or more experienced I think. Can';t seem to get it more than 6" off the ground, and as for directionality  :huh As soon as I give it throttle it';ll pitch one way or the other and the props start to make a beeline for the grass. I thought 10 minutes in my modest garden to get a feel might do me well. Chance would be a fine thing. Think I need a radius of around 200m to avoid hitting anything.
Back to the drawing board, come back in 2 years time when you get a few more flying hours under the belt.   :shrug:


the CC3D does have self level modes, might be all you need to change is a few settings

Cheers
Phil
Many Thanks
Phil
www.makeitbuildit.co.uk

DarrellW

Has anyone use this fc on a bigger multi, at the moment I';m not sure whether I want to try it out on a 330 or 500 (ish) model?
I have come up with an idea to get a small (ish) quad on 8" props, my other idea is for 500 with 10" props (both wood of  course! ).
I think..........I think I am........therefore I am.............I think!

Hands0n

I do believe that Raf has built, or is presently building, a CC3D based TBS Discovery  :notworthy:

There is absolutely no reason that the CC3D wouldn';t handle the larger aircraft. I have an intention to fit my spare (!) CC3D on to The Plank of Wood at some stage, once I get over having fun flying the KK 2.1.5 FC  :laugh:

Here';s an interesting perspective I saw recently:

--
Danny
"Its better than bad, its good"

Current FCs: Pixhawk, APM 2.6, Naza M V2, Naze32, Flip32+ CC3D, KK2.1.5
Aircraft: miniMax Hex, DJI 550 (clone) TBS Disco, 450 Firefly, 250 Pro, ZMR250, Hubsan X4, Bixler 2

james

So I got one of these to replace a MultiWii SE 2 board - well, the GCS is a heck of a lot nicer, the configuration and setup is much more straightforward, and it all works great. I bought mine from http://www.unmannedtechshop.co.uk/ - £20 or so and came with all the required bits etc, though I also needed to get some short servo extension leads to slice off the power/gnd cables on those rather than my ESCs as recommended in their docs.

Yaw is an issue straight out the gate - note if you plug in your board and watch the scopes you';ll see it yaw off as the gyro drifts. The logic for this from the devs is, of course, obvious - there';s no way to zero the yaw axis without a magnetometer. I';ve got an HMC5887 breakout board I hope a future firmware revision can make use of on the I2C bus. The issue is only visible with the yaw axis in attitude hold mode - it';ll try and auto-correct, but of course that';s just introducing crap into your mixer/control model because the yaw is trying to correct to a reference that might as well be random. This is however the default mode in flight mode 1; if you flip to flight mode 2 you get the rate stabilizer, which hides the issue.

I';ve had a lot of takeoffs immediately resulting in pitching/rolling and bringing props into contact with ground - this is probably exacerbated by my quad (https://assets.talkunafraid.co.uk/2014/10/DSC_4705.jpg) being reasonably tall and top-heavy, which isn';t good for stability anyway.

Once I';ve finished mounting some stuff this afternoon I';m going to go give it more of a try with the rate stabilizer on the current 14.10 firmware from git - we';ll see how that goes.

For £20 it';s hard to beat, imho, having tried a fair few around this price point. Think the next thing I';ll grab is a Pixhawk, though - I';m looking to do GPS missions, and the Pixhawk inspires more confidence than the Revolution at that price point, I think...

DarrellW

James, if I were you I';d be careful about using prop savers - with a rapid climb or decent they can let go resulting in an expensive crash. If the motors were under the arms instead of on top it would probably be ok but as is I would be inclined to replace them with a fixed prop mount!
I think..........I think I am........therefore I am.............I think!

Sweet Pickle

Quote from: philtrum on Saturday,October 25, 2014, 19:10:03
the CC3D does have self level modes, might be all you need to change is a few settings

Cheers
Phil


So indeed the settings are there in the OpenPilot GCS and I can see that I can flip between 3 default modes, but realistically they don';t seem to make much of a difference... at least trying to get off the ground. I';ve calibrated the gyro';s etc and on paper it seems set as far as I can take it. The particular 450 this is on couldn';t be any more stripped down so ballance isn';t an issue. The true issue is that the second throttle is applied it';s very lively and pulls whichever direction it sees fit, which isn';t consistent so I can';t draw any conclusions. It';s not one for the n00b';s I think.

james

Quote from: DarrellW on Sunday,October 26, 2014, 14:04:15
James, if I were you I';d be careful about using prop savers - with a rapid climb or decent they can let go resulting in an expensive crash. If the motors were under the arms instead of on top it would probably be ok but as is I would be inclined to replace them with a fixed prop mount!

Yeah, just using them while I learn to crash properly - I';m not doing any high flying or sudden movement. I have a pack of direct drive adapters for the motors in a box and some direct drive props, just waiting for when I get good enough to not need the prop savers  :tongue: