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3d - Printworx

Printing 3d Forum

choosing the right octo

Started by octoboy, Wednesday,December 26, 2012, 11:10:24

Previous topic - Next topic

octoboy

Hi guys.

I';m lookink to pick up an octocopter with the works fully RTF.
A camera mount to carry a canon5d  such as the av200 o similar and a ground station.
It will be mostly used for shooting video from the 5d  (for a hobbie) and to see where it goes from there over time.
My budget is £5, 000 to £6, 000
Can anyone recommend a machine to do the job and a trustworthy supplier to deal with.
I do like the look of mikro kopter and cinestar but I';m open to any input you could
give.
I only went the octo road for the safety of the extra motors and to reduce the workload while carrying the 5d but if you feel there is a hex out there that would do the same job id love to hear about it (hex Xl)??

Look forward to your advice on this and thank you in advance.  ~~


sausageroll

For five grand you would be able to make yourself a decent enough S800 setup. The hex itself:

http://www.buildyourowndrone.co.uk/DJI-S800-Spreading-Wings-p/dji-s800-spreading-wings.htm

You would also need a wookong controller (about 700 quid) and all the radio gear.


The DJI Zenmuse head (expensive, about 2300 pounds) is very good and stable, but they only make it for a few cameras, and the 5D is not one of them. For the 5D you really need one of the cinestar gimbals, they are ok, but based on hacked RC servos so im not sure how stable they will be.


You will more than likely struggle to get what your looking for for 5-6k, by the time you have batteries, chargers, radio stuff and all the camera control bits, its likely to be quite a bit higher, but the S800 is a good place to start. Also consider maybe using a Sony NEX5, the new ones have very high data rate and take amazing video and photos. If you dont already have the 5D, or can make a bit of extra budet room to get an NEX5, then id do that and get the S800 and Zenmuse. Thats a really decent setup and you';d be amazed how stable it is and how good the footage from a small camera can look.




Pete

octoboy

Wednesday,December 26, 2012, 12:02:00 #2 Last Edit: Wednesday,December 26, 2012, 12:05:27 by octoboy
HI

Thanks for that, I had looked at the S800 and it looks like a really nice machine but they said it was not ideal for the weight of the 5d which I already own.
I hear what your saying about extending the budget to buy a nex 5/7 but also that extra cash could go into an octo I guess, Anyway I don';t think I could go much above £6,500.
Sadly I don';t have time to build it my self ( Would love to) but will have to go RTF.

Found this on Quadcopters uk site
Any thoughts?

RTF  £6,795
Mikrokopter Octo XL with Droidworx AD8-HLE Heavy Lift Extended .
Mikrokopter FC 2.1 ME
Mikrokopter Navi Ctrl 2.0
Mikrokopter GPS 2.1
Aerodrive 8 Power Drive Board .
Photohigher AV200 Camera Gimbal .

Includes Graupner MX-20 12 Channel Radio with Telemetry 2.4ghz
Graupner GR-24 Receiver
2 x Lipo Batteries
1 x AC/DC Lipo Charger
Specialised Led lighting system and coloured Motor boots to aid orientation


Gaza07

Thats a very nice list of gear you have there but with your budget you can afford most of the top gear around just take your time and look at them all before making your final choice  ~~

sausageroll

Hi Octoboy,

I wouldn';t necessarily view Octo as preference over hex. They may well be more stable and safe sometimes, but dont choose one over another simply because of numbers of rotors.

Cant comment on the Mikrokopter really as ive never seen it in person but it looks nice enough.


Pete.

Rappy Freak

Have a look here at the link below.  Some Octos in action


http://shop.carboncore.co.uk/epages/es140672.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es140672/Categories/Videos

I am building the smaller Hexa 650 at the minute for carrying one of my cameras and so far have really enjoyed the build.  I would have gone with a bigger airframe but only have a very small house  :beer2:
SkyNet shall rise!!!!!!

Balders

if you can ignore the stupid yanks, watch to the end of this video of the Spreading Wings S800 hexacopter.  The lift off with over 5kg';s of drinks bottles attached.


Growing old is mandatory...Growing up is optional

FPV Guru
BNUC-S qualified
Sbaps.co.uk

octoboy

Thursday,December 27, 2012, 11:07:45 #7 Last Edit: Thursday,December 27, 2012, 11:18:03 by octoboy
Thanks lads.

The carbon core stuff looks great, Amy feed back on them?
How good is the gear they use-motors, speed controllers etc?
Nice looking work though.

The spreading wings caught my eye a few week ago, looks like a great machine.
Oh yes I too have see the video your talking about,
Great with the sound turned down.  :laugh:
Saying that, it';s all very well lumping a hefty weight into the air as a once off but I think the long term result of doing that might toast the poor thing?
The manufactors say max take off weight is 7kgl and the s800 + lipo is 5.3kg
That left 1.7 kg so the were over weight by 3.3 kg. probably would not have a long life at that rate.
I put it on another post that the s800 + lipo+ z15+camera(gh2) came to 6.8kg
Not leaving any room to add another lipo or anything else for that matter?
Yet they  sell the idea that they designed the s800 to go with the z15?
Strange they left very little in the way of excess power available.
Maybe that';s why there are so many reports of crashes due to Burned out electrics?


Balders

I';m not too familiar with the S800, I did look at one but went down the "individual components" route instead so I can customise it to my own spec.

Whilst it won';t be as neat or modular as the S800 it will be same dimensions and my frame is foldable.  I just need to ensure I build it as neat as possible :)

Which lipo(s) are you referring to to give that lift off weight?  Sounds like a lot of lipo weight to me.  You can certainly cut weight by reducing lipo, if you accept shorter flight times.

If you are wanting to do a few stills from the air, so long as you have a specific target/subject, you really only need 3 minutes worth of flight time I would suggest.  I have been building a frame/naza for a guy who was expecting 15-20 min flight times, but when I pointed out, how long does it take to take a photo the penny dropped :)

It';s great having capacity to fly for 10 minutes or so, but a lot of the time, you are simply lugging extra weight around.
Growing old is mandatory...Growing up is optional

FPV Guru
BNUC-S qualified
Sbaps.co.uk

octoboy

Hi balderdash.
Ill dig up the info on the lipo weight when I get home later, remembering that I a newbie and have being known  to screw up.  :whistling:
I hear what your saying about a quick flight time being grand for grabbing some shots and totally agree but my main reason behind this is to shoot stable aerial Hd video 99% of the time, I have a canon 5d already but the more I look at the z15 the more I like it, the only problem being that it won';t take a 5d and the price of the thing!
But as one of the lads said you could have a hex + z15 for the same money as an octo and av200.
It would mean using a nex 5/7 or gh2 though.. Another wedge of dosh!
Could Sell the canon I guess..
I like the sound of what your doing, now you know what your getting.
I don';t know nearly enough about the individual  components yet to attempt doing a build but it is in my view the best way to go (if you can)
I guess we all start at the beginning and pick stuff up.. That';s what is so good about this forum.


Balders

We are all more than happy to help, that';s for sure.

With multicopters, the first rule is "Weight is your enemy".  So as soon as you start talking about lugging a whopping great DSLR around, you instantly enter a "big boys" area requiring heavy lift and serious level flight control.

This is not a reason to put you off...I';m hoping my airframe will have that sort of capacity once built...I just need to prove it when I take my BNUC-S practical.  If my flight manual says I can fly with a 2kg camera, I have to do my test with a 2kg camera, and take photos!
Growing old is mandatory...Growing up is optional

FPV Guru
BNUC-S qualified
Sbaps.co.uk

octoboy

Yes I have being speaking to the iaa about doing this course bit it';s a little on the gray side at the moment, when you get a chance could you give me a quick run through on what you need to do. Ie. ground school/ exam/ cost
Much appreciated as this is something ill have to do once comfortable flying the thing(eventually)

Thanks again..

shaktar

Out of interest what kind of look you going trying to get with your video?

Quality wise then everything';s realy close now, go-pro, DLSR';s etc. Although DLSR';s do have problems and there';s certain situations it will fail, compared to a proper Video camera.

Unless your after the shallow DOF or movie look then go smaller on the camera.

Balders

Quote from: octoboy on Thursday,December 27, 2012, 13:19:28
Yes I have being speaking to the iaa about doing this course bit it';s a little on the gray side at the moment, when you get a chance could you give me a quick run through on what you need to do. Ie. ground school/ exam/ cost
Much appreciated as this is something ill have to do once comfortable flying the thing(eventually)

Thanks again..


this should have pretty much all the info you need...:

http://www.eurousc.com/luass/pilots.html
Growing old is mandatory...Growing up is optional

FPV Guru
BNUC-S qualified
Sbaps.co.uk

octoboy


octoboy

This must be the problem I have being hearing so much about with the s800..
http://www.dji-innovations.com/compass/submit_rma/

Looks like it';s sorted now though.  :crossfingers:

octoboy

Hi Shaktar,

I';m really after a good quality hd video (Movie) look I guess.
Not  too worried about close up action stuff or dof  really but more the ability to say, Follow a horse rider through a field or car driving down a street kind of thing.
I really would like to have the proper set up first time round so if in the future
( Well in the future)  I was to try my hand in some tv stuff I could.
I know the 5d can be used on some tv productions but not so sure about the likes of the NEX5 or 7 or the Gh2?
All of which will fit the lovely Z15 unit.
Might never happen but I reckon if I';m forking out that kind of dosh I should get it right first time.
I have shot some wildlife stuff on video with the canon 5d and this is the area I think I would probably try to eventually get into but really  part time only and mostly as a hobby.

CarbonCore Multicopter

Hi Octoboy - I hope you find this useful!

I found this very interesting:
QuoteThe manufactors say max take off weight is 7kgl and the s800 + lipo is 5.3kg
That left 1.7 kg so the were over weight by 3.3 kg. probably would not have a long life at that rate.
I put it on another post that the s800 + lipo+ z15+camera(gh2) came to 6.8kg
Not leaving any room to add another lipo or anything else for that matter?
Yet they  sell the idea that they designed the s800 to go with the z15?
Strange they left very little in the way of excess power available.


I have this CarbonCore Hexa950 setup with TWO, 6S 4500 LiPos and 15" props and it weighs 5.9Kgs

You can see how it climbs in this video! ( 0:55)


And with Carbon tube arms and ESCs close to the batteries, it doesn';t have the S800 troubles.

That Leg Set will also allow the PhotoHigher AV200 to be fitted ;)



octoboy

Wow,
The carbon core stuff looks great.
So how much would the 950 hex and z15 (RTF) cost me with radio gear etc?
And also same option with the av200?
Is the av200 a good option for really solid video?
I know it';s aprox 1/3 the price of the z15
But it';s all about the results in the end.

Thanks in advance

Multirotorcraft

Thursday,December 27, 2012, 21:20:22 #19 Last Edit: Thursday,December 27, 2012, 21:26:49 by Multirotorcraft
Hi Octoboy

I build RTF CarbonCore if your interested. A little more than the budget your quoted but close :-)

http://www.multirotorcraft.co.uk/#/shop/4567294926/CarbonCore-RTF

All the best

Andrew


Quote from: octoboy on Thursday,December 27, 2012, 15:48:09
Perfect....
Thanks again..

octoboy

Hi Andrew.
Thanks for the link.
This forum is really great for putting people in contact with the right people. :smiley:
I like the fact that you have your prices on your site, thanks for that,
There';s nothing worse than call for price or email for price.
So I presume the carbon core hex950 will come in at just over the 7kg mark with camera onboard? Say z15 and a nex 5 or similar.
Thanks for posting.


CarbonCore Multicopter

Hi Octoboy.

No... The Hexa950 with TWO, 6S 4500';s, Zenmuse and NEX-5 is a little under the 6Kg mark...  ;D

octoboy

Thanks for that.. Very impressive indeed.
What do you estimate flight times are with that set up and take off weight?

shaktar

Ah well i found some info to help, don';t know how much you know about this stuff.



This is a cool vid i saw showing off what they could do with Z15 unit etc. So you can see what you get from it and i do love the edit of this vid :P

Also take a look at this its a comparison of the Nex 7 vs 5D MkIII

http://www.mikekobal.com/blog/?p=4095

Show the difference in Rolling shutter/Jello effect and Moire etc between the too. Good way to judge if it worth the heaver camera or not.

octoboy

Thursday,December 27, 2012, 23:56:51 #24 Last Edit: Friday,December 28, 2012, 01:22:01 by octoboy
Hi Shaktar.

Thanks so much for taking the time to find this, It';s exactly the info I have being looking for :smiley:
Well it looks like the  nex 7 is capable of standing up to the canon 5d on a lot of fronts..
Its nice to see such a detailed review of the two.
To answer your question of how well I am up on all this, we';ll not as much as I would like to be but learning all the time.
I think he nex 7 could do the same job as the canon 5 d  on the video end of things.
Nice to know.
So  many choices..  :laugh:
Thanks for the info.  ~~

CarbonCore Multicopter

This is my first Zenmuse video. On a Hexa950, flown aggressively!

It';s worth a note that this video is completely RAW footage - NO editing.
Aldo this was with DJI';s recommended NEX-5 settings... I';ve been using different settings since then.


Multirotorcraft

My pleasure. The CarbonCore Hex 950 with Zenmuse and 2 x 6s 5000mAh will hover for about 14 mins anymore and its a bonus. However all this is dependant on air temp and the altitude that you are at to start with.

As to my prices I like to let people see whats what, no sense in hiding it :-) By the way the Zenmuse Hex is here
http://www.multirotorcraft.co.uk/#/shop/4567294934/RTF-CarbonCore-H6-950mm-Hexacopter-DJI-Zenmuse-version/4444297
And a rough calculation is here. See lower right for flight time in hover. The other flight time mentioned is if you were at 100 throttle. That wont happen LOL
www.ecalc.ch/xcoptercalc_e.htm?ecalc&weight=6000&calc=auw&rotornumber=8&elevation=500&airtemp=25&batteries=lipo_5000mah_-_30/45c&s=6&p=2&chargestate=normal&motor=tiger_motor&type=mt3515-15&propeller=apc_electric_e&diameter=15&pitch=5&blades=2

All the best

Andrew

Quote from: octoboy on Thursday,December 27, 2012, 21:40:00
Hi Andrew.
Thanks for the link.
This forum is really great for putting people in contact with the right people. :smiley:
I like the fact that you have your prices on your site, thanks for that,
There';s nothing worse than call for price or email for price.
So I presume the carbon core hex950 will come in at just over the 7kg mark with camera onboard? Say z15 and a nex 5 or similar.
Thanks for posting.

octoboy


poseiden

Send us a message, I have the right octo for you, but its 5k
One broken tarot 680 pro and a wonky phantom plus two parked up Droidworx Skyjib's

Revs

Holy thread reawakening batman!

Don';t think he';s gonna see your post poseiden, this is a 5 year old thread.