Flyduino Quadrocopter Frame Set

[teslahed]

The setting which matters the most when trying to do flips is the Roll/Pitch rate setting.

As long as you have this set high enough you'll have the control authority to make it around. I don't think any of the other settings make much difference except that obviously if your quadcopter isn't properly PID tuned it wont fly well enough to flip.

You've got your Roll/Pitch rate set to 0.70 which is about what I've got mine set to so i think you'll be fine.

You've got your control Rate set to 1.0 which is how i have mine and you've set your yaw Rate the same as your roll and pitch rates which I've also done (although that wont affect your flips).

Which settings did you change to try and make your quadcopter flip better?

[Gaza07]

I looked at your settings and also  been looking through a few other peoples and those you use seem to be the average although some people go higher but, I will try the settings I have for now,
I increased the rcrate from 0.7 or something like that to 1.0 and the roll and yaw rates were both at zero so the 0.7 should be quite a change, I left the expo as it is, fingers crossed I dont trash my quad 
I will prob get down to the field on monday as the week ends down there a bit to busy 

[teslahed]

Since your Yaw rate is the same as your roll and pitch rate i suggest you try spinning your quadcopter after you take off to see how much more control you have before you try flipping it.

[Gaza07]

Good point 

[Gaza07]

I had a quick test fly of the dji / paris this morning with the new settings, I was suprised it wasnt as responsive as I was expecting, so Ive upped the rate for roll and yaw from 0.7 to 0.9 I will retest again later,
I also loaded the new megapirateng firmware on to my polish quad and although it is getting close to be tuned in, compared to the multi wii with higher settings it feels like a soggy sponge, and I found my self having to move the stick much further 
I think I'm going to like the multi wii with higher settings it just feels better connected 

[teslahed]

I think that as you up the 'RATE' setting the control authority increases but mostly at full stick deflection. So if you are just flying about in a sedate fashion you shouldn't feel much difference between a higher and lower rate setting.

I'm interested to hear how you get on with the megapirates code. It seems like it has more GPS and waypoint features but I'm interested to know how good it is for stunt flying and whether it can be configured for that or if I'm better of sticking with MultiWii.

[Gaza07]

i think for fun and stunt flying you would be better of sticking with multi wii, the Arducopter project which the megapirate is ported form was designed for a stable platform although I have seen people perform stunts using it, the equipment used for megapirate and arducopter is quite a bit more expensive than say a basic multi wii setup and not worth the risk doing aerobatics,
having said that the new crius all in one pro isnt that expensive and can use the multi wii megapirateng and the new arducopterng firmware, and you could easily remove the gps for stunt flying  ::)

[teslahed]

Done a flip yet?

It's a bit windy for flying here in (temporarily) sunny Lancaster but it looks as if the wind might drop this evening if I'm lucky.

[Gaza07]

Not yet its a bit windy for flying here to, you cant rush in to these things you know 
I did fly the copter last night and your right the settings affect the full stick movement and dont actually make it any harder to fly because the new settings didn't feel any different, although I think a higher rcrate might make things more twitchy if set above 1.00
I was rolling from side to side last night to try and get a feel for it and I had it completely on its side vertical, the problem was I didnt flip it back quick enough and it just fell out of the sky and hit the floor, only bust a prop though 

[teslahed]

Yeah it's not worth flipping it (especially the first time) when it's too windy. I find flipping directly into wind makes things easier because otherwise the wind can catch you side on and affect things somewhat as you go around.

Once the conditions are right thought i think you'll be fine though. Getting the quadcopter to stand (temporarily) on it's edge strikes me as actually harder to do than flipping all the way around. I've not done that particular trick myself yet at any rate.

[MadMax]

Dont forget to video it when you do your first flip we will either see a nice flip or a bad crash, you could get £250 if you crash it and send the video to you been framed 
Seriously though I hope it all goes very well for you 

[Gaza07]

Well if it does go wrong I'm having the £250 

[teslahed]

Unfortunately i don't think I'm going to get £250 out of this one; didn't get it on video for one thing.

fortunately it just seems to be the 4 metal arms that are damaged, none of the gear, so I will just buy new arms for it and it should be fine. I'll probably leave it for a while though as I've got my other quadcopter flying quite nicely at the moment and the carbon sporan is almost finished.

[Gaza07]

Ouch for a minute I though you had busted your new carbon arms  are they the arms from flyduino or have you painted some ali arms your self 

[teslahed]

It's the official metal aluminium arms that are bent (one snapped) - they arrived painted black. I'll order some more but at the moment i'm going to concentrate on getting the pvc one flying better and the carbon one flying at all.

[MadMax]

Oh dear not good what happened 

[Gaza07]

I have had a problem with my Paris v3 which I have mentioned in another thread but, just before I uploaded the code again to the board I noticed some thing that should have been commented out,
being able to disarm with the roll stick was defined and it should have been commented out,
The reason I mention this is because I was messing with my quad rolling from side to side very quickly and as I said earlier I had the quad right over then it fell to the floor, well now I'm wondering if I accidentally disarmed the board  :embarrassed

[Gaza07]

I was just thinking is it best to flip forwards or backwards, I was thinking that when flipping backwards it is going to come towards you if some thing goes wrong,
I'm working my way up to doing this I can't believe how bad my nerve's are over this as Iv'e never been this reluctant with my planes and helicopters 

[teslahed]

Oh dear not good what happened 

I took the quadcopter up high and cut the power then started it up again to see what would happen. I had stabalisation mode on but it didn't quite recover before it hit the ground - don't think i'll try that again.

I have had a problem with my Paris v3 which I have mentioned in another thread but, just before I uploaded the code again to the board I noticed some thing that should have been commented out,

I spotted that and commented out one of the two ways you can arm and disarm - i just use the rudder on the left. This seems safer as you never really totally cut power with a quadcopter so it seems harder to accidentally disarm the quadcopter this way.

I was just thinking is it best to flip forwards or backwards, I was thinking that when flipping backwards it is going to come towards you if some thing goes wrong,

In theory (depending on your quadcopter and PID tuning) you can flip equally in any direction. I would pick the direction that seems easiest in terms of control - i did my first flip by pulling back on the stick because that's the same way i would go around when looping a radio control aircraft which I'm used to. I've since done forward and slide flips and there is no real difference except in your mind.

[Gaza07]

Well I have now flipped my copter, but all did not go as well as I wanted, the first time, I flipped it I crashed but not badly at all I was just a bit wobbly coming out of the flip and crash landed, I then had three more attempts and all three went very well I was so chuffed, so I went to fetch the camera, and by this time my hands were shaking so much that on the attempts with the camera on  I piled it in and busted my 450 frame one arm is shot the rest survived but three broken props,
I should have waited and calmed down but no, gotta get it on video and then stuff it in big time 

Do I regret it NO I have flipped it now and will not be so bad next time, just need a new arm and fit new props, I will say this though it all happens fast very fast 

The video hmmm should I upload it yes or no 

[Gaza07]

Damm I just checked both white arms are busted one the end is busted right off, and the other the motor mount at the end is cracked, so two new arms are needed, what a buzz though Ive been crapping me pants for the last ten mins 

I have watched the video and I clearly came out of the flip to early so the quad was heading my way and I massively over corrected and dumped it in hard, I think if it had been an ali frame the damage would have been far worse, I'm lovin these frames although I just abused it 

[teslahed]

The video hmmm should I upload it yes or no 

Definitely upload it

Glad to hear you managed a few successful flips before you crashed - and i think you are right; once you've done the first one it doesn't seem so difficult. I'm sure that once you've fixed everything you'll get the chance to practice until it seems easy.

I might have tried looping mine sooner but my first attempt didn't go so well. I tried about 4 months back but only made it half way round and flew straight into the ground Didn't get it on video either.

[Gaza07]

Ok here's the video it is best watched full screen and in 720 HD 
as you can see it flipped fine but I panicked and put in massive over control and it just dumped it in to the floor very quickly to quick to respond again to the mistake I had made 

http://youtu.be/XvAFhuorVBk

[teslahed]

I can see how you overcorrected it at the last second - I am sure you'll be fine once you've done a few more though.

One thing i will say - I've flipped my quadcopter over 50 times now and i still wouldn't feel comfortable flipping in your garden - too little space to recover in if it goes a bit wobbly. If you'd been out in the field you could probably have recovered in the space you'd have had available. Although i get the impression you've been flying quadcopters and helis a lot longer than i have and if your field isn't so near then you don't necessarily have much choice.

In theory i could flip my quadcopter in my back garden - although if i got it wrong there I'd be hitting the neighbours cars so i haven't tried it.

[Gaza07]

I had actually done three good flips just before the video but it had my hands shaking a bit and I should have waited a few Min's before doing it again 

The back garden is probably quite a bit longer than it seems and is quite safe to do the flips in forwards or backwards there are no cars anywhere near, as my back garden backs on to other very long back gardens, I feel quite comfortable flying in the garden and avoid doing so when any neighbours are in there gardens, I have been flying for quite a long time 
and have perfected the art of dumping them in quite well  ::)

I will replace the busted arms only a few dollars and have another go, when I watch the video back a few times I could kick my self for panicking so bad, after all the years of flying I have done I thought I had got beyond this as it never happens with planes or helis I have got my self out of some tricky situations when flying simply because of not getting panicked over whats happening, but multi rotors seem to be different although I'm sure I will soon master it 

[MadMax]

Ouch looked like it hit really hard, the frame must be pretty tuff though because how hard it hit the deck I though it would have been a right off 

[Gaza07]

It did hit very hard and I was surprised it wasn't scrap, I would recommend this frame its probably a bit heavier than  the equivalent Ali frame but its as tough as an old boot  ::)

[Gaza07]

Here's some pics of the carnage 

[attach=1][attach=2][attach=3]

As can be seen one end broke off completely and the other was badly fractured, it will cost $10 for a pair of new arms inc shipping 

[MadMax]

Thanks for posting the pics and video most people wouldnt show there  mistakes  ::)
the arms look like they have been made to break where they have maybe to save damage further down or maybe to make you buy new arms 

[Gaza07]

I think your right it looks like they are designed to break at the end which to me is a good thing and probably save the main plates, they have had a lot of abuse before I broke them, I had crashed quite hard several times before with no damage to the frame,
This is also being brought up in the rm450 thread