Is Horizon mode all that stable / drunken dance.

[Andy7]

I';ve been working with Angle mode as my main flight mode for the year it';s taken me to gt my Quad right, then I read that this is all but redundant.
So, shifting my controls about on my 6x I have three modes on the Aux2 analogue pot now, Acro, Angle and Horizon.

I went back to basics with the PID tuning (following the great French video) after I swapped my props out and back again and I';m finding that Horizon mode slides about all over the place but Angle tends to hold position a lot better - how come?

My Roll  / Pitch PIDs are set so that P is just under the rapid wobble point (6.5) then I=20 and D=15

Anyone got any good tips to stop it sliding about? I now that it';ll never stay totally still but it';s wandering about a lot more than the gentle breeze in my sheltered garden would account for and I';m constantly fighting to keep it within a 2m box.

A decent sized rock duct-taped to one arm doesn';t cause it to drift off in that direction, so I suspect my I is good.

I';ve got the LPF set to 20, which seems a bit better than 42. My vibrations are pretty good, a laser point reflected off each motor mount in turn over 2m makes a patten smaller than a 5p through the full motor range, and very small at flight speeds.

[Hands0n]

Could it simply be that you are not yet used to Horizon mode?

Horizon is a hybrid mode between Angle and Acro. That is, with the control sticks nearer the centre it will behave much as in Angle mode. But at more extremes of stick movement it will fly more acrobatically, aggressively. So much less stick movement is required to maintain a gentler flight style. Any medium to big stick movements, say to rapidly adjust position, will result in a more active aircraft movement.

I do not agree with the notion put out on the MultiWii forums that Angle is now obsolete. It still has a place or the developers would have removed it.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Andy7]

You';re right about not being used to Horizon. It took me a while to remember that it has some elements of Acro, so will be more active. (Also I had to remember that the Roll/Pitch PIDs aren';t active in Acro... duh)
But, it';s still sliding about a LOT in Angle mode despite following as many guides as I can.

[JT]

 As far as I understand it, ANGLE uses only the accelerometer, so the only pid that will effect it is the ';LEVEL'; one, ACRO uses the gyro and the PID for roll/pitch come into play. HORIZON uses both, at 0 stick input(middle) it is all accelerometer and at full stick movement it is all gyro and everything in between is a mixture.

If you were happy in ANGLE why don';t you just use that?

[Andy7]

I think I';ll end up using Horizon when I';m moving about, seems pretty responsive, and then Angle for loitering, photograpy and so on.

But the trouble is that I';m NOT actually happy with Angle yet. You see all these videos of people with their beautifully tuned quads an they';re just sitting in the air with hardly a touch of the sticks - that';s where I want to be with mine. (I doubt that the good position hold is down to GPS).

If you';d seen my recent videos on YouTube (search andy_severn) then you';ll see that as far as flying and generally mucking about in the air with little real purpose, it';s behaving well and is quite fun. But it';s just far too ';slippery';.

[JT]

 If you want something that just parks in the air then a naza or apm/pixhawk with GPS would be better for that. For just flying around multiwii is superb.
I use multiwii and naze32, both will fly with exceptional stability in ANGLE,but they are never going to just sit there without an aid(GPS, baro and mag) and will always drift along with the movement of the air. I have used a GPS with both and though it works OK I can';t get them to hold like the videos you see of APM or naza.

[kilby]

If you want something that just parks in the air then a naza or apm/pixhawk with GPS would be better for that. For just flying around multiwii is superb.
I use multiwii and naze32, both will fly with exceptional stability in ANGLE,but they are never going to just sit there without an aid(GPS, baro and mag) and will always drift along with the movement of the air. I have used a GPS with both and though it works OK I can';t get them to hold like the videos you see of APM or naza.

Horses for courses.

You can throw a Naza or APM equipped machine, but all evidence points to something like the Naze32 being a better option.

If you ever just want to park it or float in a very camera friendly way then the APM or Naza is a better option, no doubt the Naze/MultiWii etc can do it but will be more difficult than it needs to be.

It';s also a good excuse to get one of everything

[Andy7]

It';s also a good excuse to get one of everything

I';ll drink to that! 

I think the open-sauciness of MultiWii appeals to me, but okay I';ll at least investigate a Naza just to see what the difference is, but not over the moon with having to spend £150 odd more...

BTW, I do have a MAG and that really does do wonders for my Yaw hold - just the odd touch now and again. I';ve hardly touched the settings for that and I reckon I can get it even better.
I also have a BARO, but I';m taking things one step at a time, trying to get the ground-plane hold right first.

[JT]

If you ever just want to park it or float in a very camera friendly way then the APM or Naza is a better option, no doubt the Naze/MultiWii etc can do it but will be more difficult than it needs to be.

As I already said, having used and tuned the GPS feature with both multiwii and naze32 they work pretty well but not like the near inch perfect performance of the APM/pixhawk or naza (out of those I would get the pixhawk) The best that seems possible with multiwii/baseflight seems to be a couple of meters in any direction. The baro hold works really well on the naze as does the mag hold.

[Hands0n]

@Andy7 - Without GPS you will not get any kind of loiter with whichever multiwii FC you';re using.  Air movement will cause it to drift about, any kind of movement whatsoever.  Tuning the PID and selecting an appropriate [for you] mode will govern how the aircraft responds to your stick movement.   But it was only a few days ago that someone posted some truly marvellous FPV video of cliffs over the sea that was taken from an aircraft using Naze32 FC.  Responding to compliments at the stability of the video that looked as though it was from a gimbal-equipped camera he said it was all down to fine and controlled stick movement.  So it can be done with a bit of well-developed muscle memory.

If you like Open Source then I can recommend APM, especially as the FCs can be had for less than £30 these days.  Add a GPS and you';ve a winning combination of an FC that can get a move on in Stability mode and yet literally hang in the sky in Loiter mode.  The new Hybrid mode is a combination of Loiter and Stability making for a very responsive "camera ship". 

[kilby]

As I already said, having used and tuned the GPS feature with both multiwii and naze32 they work pretty well but not like the near inch perfect performance of the APM/pixhawk or naza (out of those I would get the pixhawk) The best that seems possible with multiwii/baseflight seems to be a couple of meters in any direction. The baro hold works really well on the naze as does the mag hold.

Wasn';t referring to yourself I was just saying horses for courses to the OP

[Andy7]

Blimey! GPS modules are only £3.50 from amazon...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/I2C-GPS-navigation-Navigation-Module-MultiWii/dp/B00HLV4BWE

Think I might be able to stretch to that!
I guess if it';s i2c it';ll pretty much plug and play to multiwii.

[Andy7]

Blimey! GPS modules are only £3.50 from amazon...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/I2C-GPS-navigation-Navigation-Module-MultiWii/dp/B00HLV4BWE

Think I might be able to stretch to that!
I guess if it';s i2c it';ll pretty much plug and play to multiwii.

Ah dang it! It';s just an intermediate processor. Still another twenty quid for the receiver ain';t too bad.

[philtrum]

Blimey! GPS modules are only £3.50 from amazon...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/I2C-GPS-navigation-Navigation-Module-MultiWii/dp/B00HLV4BWE

Think I might be able to stretch to that!
I guess if it';s i2c it';ll pretty much plug and play to multiwii.

sorry to say thats not a gps, just a gps interface board

Phil

[Marty McFly]

just to put my tupece worth in,if you want the best of all worlds,then A well set up APM/Pixhawk cant be beaten,but it comes at a cost,you have to be prepared to tinker with all the parameter';s,and believe me it is worth it when you get it right,though you may shed a few tears along the journey,Marty, :scotland:

[Hands0n]

... what Marty said.

The good news is that setting up the APM/ixhawk/VR-Brain gets easier with each iteration of Arducopter. Mission Planner, if followed diligently, makes for a systematic method of setting up.  Then Auto Tune can be a significant leg up to getting the APM attuned to the air frame and electronics. It may require tweaks to perfect of course.  But if you follow the plan APM can be very rewarding.  I love the stuff.

[Andy7]

just to put my tupece worth in,if you want the best of all worlds,then A well set up APM/Pixhawk cant be beaten,but it comes at a cost,you have to be prepared to tinker with all the parameter';s,and believe me it is worth it when you get it right,though you may shed a few tears along the journey,Marty, :scotland:

If the cost is pain then I';m in... I eat pain for breakfast!

[philtrum]

If you fancy a mini almost and GPS with external.compass, I';ve just taken stock of some at WWW.makeitbuildit.Co.uk