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Andy7:
22 Aug 2019 10:27:36
Sure. But basically, all the subjects are getting cut off.
Gaza07:
21 Aug 2019 18:14:54
Can you pm me a screen shot of what you mean
Andy7:
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Gaza - can you make the subject line section in the forum topic list wider? It's cutting off the subject field really short.
Andy7:
19 Aug 2019 09:14:20
Good for you!  ~~
DarkButterfly:
18 Aug 2019 19:13:57
Had another negative encounter, it's been a few years since the last one, just an uneducated ******, going on about drones being illegal yada yada yada.    :-/
Still that didn't spoil my flying time, had an absolute blast  ~~
Gaza07:
07 Aug 2019 19:52:01
ooooh mrs jones  :D
hoverfly:
30 Jul 2019 15:26:34
D.B. you tightwad.. :cool:
atomiclama:
29 Jul 2019 20:14:10
DB that just means you have shed loads of props in the first place ;-)
DarkButterfly:
29 Jul 2019 18:53:33
Just had a thought, even with all the crashing I've done, I haven't bought any replacement props in over a year ~~
ched:
09 Jul 2019 19:45:42
May the sun shine and winds be light for BFU#8. Son't forget lots of vids for those of us unable to attend.  :D
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3d - Printworx

Printing 3d Forum

Spider quad

Started by Smeagol, Saturday,November 17, 2012, 01:47:19

Previous topic - Next topic

Smeagol

Saturday,November 17, 2012, 01:47:19 Last Edit: Tuesday,December 18, 2012, 13:24:04 by Smeagol
My first build with no experience of RC, I plan to build a spider quad capable of carrying a small camera with an ability to view/record aerial footage.

I';ve been deliberating for quite a while now, tweak this, change that. Here';s my current BOM, appreciate help finalising the build - all ordered :

30A simonK flashed ones from rctimer
HP2212-1000KV Outrunner Brushless Motor
8x4.5 & 10x4.5" Counter Rotating Propellers

AIO Pro v1.1 board from rctimer and GPS for AIO (good price at the minute) Now its a Naza with GPS :nananana:

Turnigy 2200 - 3000mAh 30C Lipo pack
Imax charger/discharger
Lipoly low voltage alarm
Power Distribution Board with solder pads not bullets
14g wire red "Turnigy Pure-Silicone Wire" red and black
16g wire red "Turnigy Pure-Silicone Wire" red and black
18g wire black "Turnigy Pure-Silicone Wire" two colours
prop balancer
Turnigy TX 9x
Frsky module

Thanks for all you  :help:

secretman

NTM Prop Drive Series 28-26A 1200kv / 250w      qty 4 ......................its good but go with 9x4.7

Multiwii SE with FTDI prog. KK2 Or KK2 board with LCD.............. get a crius aio you will not regret it got all feature  and it';s a good price

16g wire red .. 16g wire black ... good for motor , not for battery need 14

servo wire ( buy male to male already made 10 cm..... )

Turnigy TX 9x,  Battery for Turnigy 9x, Frsky Module and Receiver ???? good idea but flash your 9x a lot better and correct all bug. you can get spektrum module too , realy cheap and it as ppm sum too like frysky

what frame did you chose?

Smeagol

Cheers for the reply secretman.

I was in chat with some of the guys on here the other night, and we discussed the ntm motors, someone mentioned new motors I think HP2212 from rctimer ... better for prop mounting, so i';ll dig out the details and add into the first post for comparison.

(Also from chat) As this is my first build and with no RC experience i';m advised that KK is most likely the preferred option for me, the AIO is certainly on the radar for subsequent builds or improvements.

The plan is to connect the battery to a power distribution board, then feed each ESC then motor, as this is all new to me I would cut the wire to suit the layout on the frame for tidiness. What gauge will I require for each link.

Re Turnigy 9x/flashing/PPM/Frsky module etc. This is where I get lost in the cosmos somewhere, and really will need to gain understanding, so i';d appreciate some clarification and assistance here.

As I believe at present, using the frsky module will improve quality and range of signal between the quad and the TX, with feedback information that will ensure I don';t go out of range and end up with a lost quad.

After a fair bit of trawling I found this spider frame and plan to make it from ply and either wood or aluminium for the arms.





teslahed

Quote from: Baldrick on Saturday,November 17, 2012, 09:46:56 The plan is to connect the battery to a power distribution board, then feed each ESC then motor, as this is all new to me I would cut the wire to suit the layout on the frame for tidiness. What gauge will I require for each link.


A good plan is to copy what has been used already on your ESCs and motors. You are likely to find you need a lot of AWG 16 and 18. Some 14 might be useful for the main power cable (going from the power distribution harness to the lipo) if you look you';ll see your lipos already have very thick cable. Get silicon coated flex cable - hobbyking and giantshark sell the stuff. It';s cheap enough to be worth buying a couple of meters of each size in red and black.

QuoteRe Turnigy 9x/flashing/PPM/Frsky module etc. This is where I get lost in the cosmos somewhere, and really will need to gain understanding, so i';d appreciate some clarification and assistance here.

As I believe at present, using the frsky module will improve quality and range of signal between the quad and the TX, with feedback information that will ensure I don';t go out of range and end up with a lost quad.


Flashing the turnigy to er9x updates the firmware and gives you lots of new programmable options. It';s a way of turning a cheap radio into a more fully featured computer programmable radio. Well worth looking in to but not something you necessarily have to do straight away. You';ll feel the benefits of this mod once you have a sophisticated flight controller with lots of channel inputs and features that need controlling more than with the KK2.

http://9xforums.com/forum/

Replacing the turnigy 9x modules with frsky modules to improve range is a separate mod done to improve range and provide the radio with a failsafe feature.

http://www.giantshark.co.uk/frsky-c-40_160_308.html

Worth looking in to if you are wanting to fly at extreme ranges, for FPV work, or if you have a big and expensive quadcopter and really want the failsafe features that don';t com with the standard modules.

One circlip short of a quadcopter.
 1 lobe short of an antenna.

Smeagol

I';m updating the first post as I go to help me finalise - all these replies are a great help  :notworthy:

The information re flashing the TX makes things a good bit clearer now - thanks.

Being real new to this and not having a clue on the working range of the quad/tx combination i';m obviously cautious, hence the "fail safe" using the frsky module. Would you recommend getting the module from day one, and which module and rx would suit/fit the turnigy 9x.

Didn';t know of Giantshark, will have a look at their site to compare otions instead of shipping a lot from HK.


Jumpy07

Failsafe is nice to have.. especially when flying longer distances.. I dont think you will need the FrSky kit right away if your are beginner..   the 9x with er9x is a very good TX..  I have one and have done the FrSky DHT-U upgrade.. (LCD screen with the TX built in for telemetry)

The range on the standad TX would be well beyond what you can fly LOS to start with in my experience.. you will have enough issue trying to see the way the frame is orientated... so would recommend waiting until you need it

If you do decide to buy FrSky kit.. I got all mine from this site in the UK  http://www.t9hobbysport.com/default.asp?CatID=115  prices are competitive..


Having not long started myself.. few recommendations.. buy lots of props and a spare motor or two.  also dont go for tall landing gear.. heli skids or foam balls are good idea to start with as you will break them
BNUC-S Pilot with PfCo /PFAW.
UAQ / CAA PfCo Instructor / Flight Assessor

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"

Smeagol

Saturday,November 17, 2012, 13:07:30 #6 Last Edit: Saturday,November 17, 2012, 16:30:39 by Baldrick
I';m getting more confident by the minute  :blink i';m trawling through vids and info etc. and it';s always good to know what is necessary at the start rather than ending up with stuff you don';t really need, all good info ta.

Just read the AIO price in your other post, watched the vid using the "Ublox-6 GPS" - should I, or will this just bury me too deep to actually get flying. Secretman recc getting an AIO. I am very technically minded, but just being careful not to jump too quick.

Is this a suitable GPS for that FC http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=763&productname=

Gaza07

Hi Baldrick the gear you have listed all looks fine, the gps is a good choice I have one and it works fine,
Flight controller wise I think you should eithe go KK2 very basic or AIOP , the reasoning behind this is because the other multi wii board you mentioned has older sensors and doesnt have the easy option of adding more to it later, there is at the moment a sale price on the AIOP on rctimer which makes it even more of a good buy, you dont have to bang all the extras on to the AIOP straight away you can just use it with multi wii and learn to fly with, If you decide its not for you it will hold a better resale price than the other 2 options but will allow you to expand without changing boards, as I mentioned earlier the AIOP has all the latest sensors and will be a better more stable fly than the other options,

The turnigy 9x tx is a good choice and updating it with the frsky gear makes it even better and adds a proper working fail safe, I dont really know much more about this radio system than that as I have something different, you can of course for a start just use the 9x as it comes the same as Chris (teslahed) does rather than take on to much to soon, you can get some very nice rechargeable nimh batteries from ebay for the tx that work very well I know Brian has some and may comment how they have worked out for him  ~~

As for motors I prefer the 1000kv range as I always use 10" props I never liked the feel of 8" props when I had my spider you could esily make the legs long enough to use 10", I use 10" on the small rm450 frames with no problems, I also like the look of the new rctimer 2212 / 100kv motors the bolt on prop adapters are much better than any of the collet types

The lipo you listed should be fine or a higher C rating would be good too, the lower the mah the less flying time you will get I used to get around 8 mins with my hex on a 3s 3000mah pack

I always use 3mm bullet connectors but its a personal choice thing some people don';t like using any

The wire sizes you listed are also fine you might also want to order some xt60 connectors

You will probably want to get some sort of lipo checker to to be able to check the level of charge in packs that have been laying around but you cant recall if they are fully charged or not, I have this one http://www.fast-lad.co.uk/store/hyperion_sentry_battery_pack_checker_hp-eos07sentry2-p-17959.html also available in black with a different brand printed on it  ~~

I never use a battery level buzzer as I time my flights with my tx and know how long I get out of the packs I use but I know a lot do use them and they dont cost a lot, some flight controllers have this option built in my rabbits do and it works very well  ~~








teslahed

Quote from: Baldrick on Saturday,November 17, 2012, 01:47:19
Hobbyking F-30A ESCs             qty 4


These ESCs are the best easily available cheap ESCs. You can flash them with the SimonK firmware at a later date and then they will perform even better.

QuoteNTM Prop Drive Series 28-26A 1200kv / 250w      qty 4
OR
HP 2212 ? from rctimer HP 1000kv?      qty 4


The HP2212s look much better because of the prop adapter design, but I';ve not used either motor myself so i am guessing a bit here. I would use those motors with either 9 or 10 inch props depending on the size and weight of the frame.

The Turnigy SK3 motors also work very well, when they are in stock;

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18154__Turnigy_Aerodrive_SK3_2830_1020kv_Brushless_Outrunner_Motor.html
Quote
Accessory pack for mounting
8 x 4.5 props (12 pairs red and 12 pairs black - rctimer)
(How do I determine he right size for the quad)


The size and weight of your frame will determine the size of props and type of motor you want to use. I would guess you should look at motors around 1000kv and props around 9 and 10 inches in size.

QuoteMultiwii SE with FTDI prog.
OR
KK2 board with LCD
OR
AIO Pro v1.1 board from rctimer (good price at the minute)
GPS for AIO - is this one suitable
http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=763&productname=


Get the KK2 if you want to concentrate on flying and building the quad and the AIOP if you want to learn multiwii to start with as it';s the best of the multiwii boards.

QuoteTurnigy 3600mAh 30C Lipo pack
(whats the impact of using a 2200 or 3200 Lipo instead)


Most people flying average sized 450 quadcopter used 2200 to 3000mah sized 3 cell batteries - larger batteries can hurt performance due to the increased weight.

QuoteTurnigy Accucel-6 50W 6A charger
Hobbyking 60W power supply


Those two, charger and mains adapter, would be fine. This combined charger and mains adapter might be neater though;

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__6478__IMAX_B6_AC_Charger_Discharger_1_6_Cells_GENUINE_.html

They are pretty much all clones of each other in terms of features and performance anyway.

QuoteHXT 4MM to Banana Plug Charge Lead Adapter
HK Quadcopter Power Distribution Board


That style of power distribtion board with built in plugs is nasty. Get one with solder pads so you can solder the wires directly instead;

http://quadcopters.co.uk/power-distribution-board-369-p.asp

Quote2m 16g wire red "Turnigy Pure-Silicone Wire"
2m 16g wire black "Turnigy Pure-Silicone Wire"
1m 14g wire red Lipo - PDB
1m 14g wire black Lipo - PDB
servo wire
servo ends
bullet connectors
(Need to identify what gauge for each link from Batt to motor)
blue loctite


Looks good but you may want some AWG 18 and there is some debate that bullet connectors are a point of failure and should be avoided - solder all the wires directly instead and use a deans connector for the main lipo power plug.

QuoteBattery level buzzer
(Is this integrated on the FC or in the TX perhaps)


Get a separate lipo alarm, like this;

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__18987__On_Board_Lipoly_Low_Voltage_Alarm_2s_4s_.html

QuoteTurnigy TX 9x
Zippy Flightmax 1800mAh 9.9v 5C LiFePo4 TX pack


looks good.
Quote
I';m looking for compatibility, cost competitive options, first time simplicity etc

Constructive comments welcomed  :notworthy:


Hope this helps.
One circlip short of a quadcopter.
 1 lobe short of an antenna.

Smeagol

Absolutely excellent information guys, can';t thank you enough.

I';ll update the first post accordingly, which will help me complete my spreadsheet so I know what to order and where from.

I reckon this information will be very useful to someone following behind me.

secretman

we keep looking at you and ready to help if any problem, for gps you can get it now and not use it or you can get it later no problem but i realy recommand aio pro for start all recent sensor on it and you get expendability  ready, and now in speciale on rctimer 50$ :)

Smeagol

Quote from: secretman on Saturday,November 17, 2012, 18:30:49
we keep looking at you and ready to help if any problem, for gps you can get it now and not use it or you can get it later no problem but i realy recommand aio pro for start all recent sensor on it and you get expendability  ready, and now in speciale on rctimer 50$ :)


Decision made to go for AIO pro - thank you

Gaza07

You can get some info on the setting the board up for multi wii here
http://www.multi-rotor.co.uk/index.php/topic,411.0.html

And the firmware for it here

http://www.multi-rotor.co.uk/index.php/topic,376.0.html

The windows GUI (Graphics User Interface) Here

http://code.google.com/p/mw-wingui/

Good choice  ~~

Smeagol

I think thats almost all I need "famous last words" for now, just the props to pick I think.

secretman

9x4.7  9x5 will be perfect same setup as mind, 1200 kv 9x5

teslahed

Quote from: secretman on Saturday,November 17, 2012, 18:30:49
we keep looking at you and ready to help if any problem, for gps you can get it now and not use it or you can get it later no problem


If you wont be using GPS to start with you can hold of on buying it to save money. I wish I';d done that because they released a bunch of newer better GPS receivers after i bought mine and before i got it working.
One circlip short of a quadcopter.
 1 lobe short of an antenna.

Smeagol

Quote from: teslahed on Sunday,November 18, 2012, 09:32:51
If you wont be using GPS to start with you can hold of on buying it to save money. I wish I';d done that because they released a bunch of newer better GPS receivers after i bought mine and before i got it working.

It';s in the shopping list now, the over budget figure has been acknowledged - WTH

Pretty much ready to order, just haven';t been able to create a login on rct site.

Smeagol

I';ve ordered some stuff from HK, still cant create login on rctimer yet.

Trying to source some 10mm CF tube same as  (No stock at HK.)http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__26194__Carbon_Fiber_Square_Tube_750x10_5mm_UK_Warehouse_.htm



Gaza07

Monday,November 19, 2012, 12:00:20 #18 Last Edit: Monday,November 19, 2012, 15:17:04 by teslahed
Thats coz Chris and XH558 have bought all the carbon fibre tube  :rolleyes:

It does keep going in and out of stock - i expect the demand is quite high as it seems a pretty good deal.

I';ve ordered twice now, both times double what i needed, never had problems using it all.

It';s not the world';s best quality carbon fibre - the fibres are all running in the same direction so it';s not the strongest - It';s still more than good enough for most things. I';ve not had any of my carbon fibre arms break yet.

Smeagol

I placed an order on HK UK, so hopefully in the not too dim and distant the stock will arrive.

Ordered some motor mounts too, found the link on here "same thread as the arms" I';d make my own but finding a source for fibreglass or CF sheet became laborious.

Still waiting RCtimer to fix their site  :blink

I';ll need some 10mm spacers then for the top and bottom frames (3mm ply - big diy), what material do you guys use for the spacers, tube and bolt right through or threaded studs and locknuts or threadlock.

Gaza07

I bought 50 of the normal stand offs and drilled them out to make them in to spacers http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/160677960944?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649  ~~

Smeagol

Quote from: Gaza07 on Monday,November 19, 2012, 21:34:58
I bought 50 of the normal stand offs and drilled them out to make them in to spacers http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/160677960944?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649  ~~

Do you also use nylon screws/bolts all way through, what about locking nuts

Gaza07

I use 3mm cap head screws and normal 3mm nuts but you could use nylock nuts if you wanted to,
I get all my fixings from http://www.modelfixings.co.uk/  ~~

Smeagol

Quote from: Gaza07 on Monday,November 19, 2012, 23:27:50
I use 3mm cap head screws and normal 3mm nuts but you could use nylock nuts if you wanted to,
I get all my fixings from http://www.modelfixings.co.uk/  ~~

thanks for the link.

I have just completed the order for giantcod - only rctimer to go, + prop balancer and "bits"

Gaza07


Smeagol

Well thats it pretty much all ordered now, couple of ancilliaries and whatever else I may have not realised I need  :shrug:

So now I wait and absorb more information on what the heck I do with it all when it does arrive  :frantic:  :banghead:

Smeagol

Asked a few mates to see if they could source fibreglass board to machine the top and bottom frames, one came back and said "no problem" ... until he arrived with a wee bit of glass cloth and resin  :banghead:

XH558

Quote from: Gaza07 on Monday,November 19, 2012, 12:00:20
Thats coz Chris and XH558 have bought all the carbon fibre tube  :rolleyes:

It does keep going in and out of stock - i expect the demand is quite high as it seems a pretty good deal.

I';ve ordered twice now, both times double what i needed, never had problems using it all.

It';s not the world';s best quality carbon fibre - the fibres are all running in the same direction so it';s not the strongest - It';s still more than good enough for most things. I';ve not had any of my carbon fibre arms break yet.


Yeash - sorry I had 6 lengths .... but used it all  :embarrassed :embarrassed Yes it goes a bit ';stringy'; when cut/drilled ... but it';s certainly strong enough - I was very happy with it  ;)

Smeagol

Quote from: XH558 on Sunday,November 25, 2012, 23:37:00
Yeash - sorry I had 6 lengths .... but used it all  :embarrassed :embarrassed Yes it goes a bit ';stringy'; when cut/drilled ... but it';s certainly strong enough - I was very happy with it  ;)

So it was you that caused the shortage at HK UK    ;) don';t be looking for any CNC work done  :evil ... still waiting on backorder  :shrug:

Well at least the tx shipped from HK Intl this morning

Gaza07

Hi Baldrick Homersainty posted this link in the chat room last night http://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.uk/p-2132-2mm-black-fibreglass-flat-sheet.aspx is that the sheet you were looking for  ;)