Dual camera FPV

[nickyb]

Hi,

I';m new to FPW I would appreciate some advice. I want to hook up my GoPro hero3 black to a gimbal and use the GoPro as FPV view as well as recording aerial movies etc. However on the net you can buy dedicated FPV cams (3.8mm), so would it be best to add this to my quad, use this for FPV and use the GoPro just for the HD movies and images?

I was going to buy a DJI mini OSD, but am I right in thinking that if I use a dual camera hook up (with the ability to switch between cameras in flight) I need the more expensive DHI OSD Mark II?

Cheers for your help,

Nick

[Jumpy07]

Its not recommended to use GoPro as main camera.. for lot of reasons.. but main one being lag..

You can buy cheap RC video switches. that will let you switch between multiple cameras..

For an FPV camera.. you are best to buy a WDR Camera with a 2.4mm Lens.. also make sure it has an IR Cut filter fitted.. something like the Pixim Seawolf.. 

[SimonS]

Video switch:-

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__29651__Hobbyking_3_Channel_FPV_Video_Switcher.html

FPV Camera:-
http://www.securitycamera2000.com/products/SONY-Super-HAD-CCD-600TVL-D%252dWDR-DNR-Board-Camera-For-FPV.html

Most flyers use the 2.8mm lens with this.

[nickyb]

Its not recommended to use GoPro as main camera.. for lot of reasons.. but main one being lag..

You can buy cheap RC video switches. that will let you switch between multiple cameras..

For an FPV camera.. you are best to buy a WDR Camera with a 2.4mm Lens.. also make sure it has an IR Cut filter fitted.. something like the Pixim Seawolf..

Thanks for the sound advice. I never knew there was lag if you used a gopro! :lipsrsealed

[flybywire]

Nick mate
Plenty of folk do use gopro';s for fpv (as well as capture), but I';ve never had any luck with that myself, and gave up.  I think that the early gopro';s were better at it, and the cable was cheap and simple being a mini jack affair.
I was an ';early adopter'; of the Hero 3 (white) last year, it had a shed load of firmware issues in those early days.  I did eventually get it to output live video, which had no appreciable lag, but it was short lived and never worked twice!  Also, you had to go into the menu to turn it on, or start it, so was a fiddle anyhow. 
All that aside, I would never rely solely upon anything like a gopro, or something which relies heavily on firmware to make it work, simply because if it does fail, it';s panic stations.  Ok, there';s always the RTH switch, but hey, always remember sods law in this hobby, if something can fail..it probably will.
Get yourself a seperate system for fpv.  Small board cameras are cheap (ish) and plentiful, I use Immersion gear myself, simply because it';s pretty much plug & play, so harder to produce the ';magic smoke'; like in the old days!

Andy

[nickyb]

Nick mate
Plenty of folk do use gopro';s for fpv (as well as capture), but I';ve never had any luck with that myself, and gave up.  I think that the early gopro';s were better at it, and the cable was cheap and simple being a mini jack affair.
I was an ';early adopter'; of the Hero 3 (white) last year, it had a shed load of firmware issues in those early days.  I did eventually get it to output live video, which had no appreciable lag, but it was short lived and never worked twice!  Also, you had to go into the menu to turn it on, or start it, so was a fiddle anyhow. 
All that aside, I would never rely solely upon anything like a gopro, or something which relies heavily on firmware to make it work, simply because if it does fail, it';s panic stations.  Ok, there';s always the RTH switch, but hey, always remember sods law in this hobby, if something can fail..it probably will.
Get yourself a seperate system for fpv.  Small board cameras are cheap (ish) and plentiful, I use Immersion gear myself, simply because it';s pretty much plug & play, so harder to produce the ';magic smoke'; like in the old days!

Andy

Cheers for the sound advice Andy.

I was thinking this myself and not to use the GP as an FPV camera. People say CCD is better than CMOS for an FPV camera, around 3.6mm lens type, is this correct do you think?

Finally, being a newbie, do I just install a 2 or 3-way video switch, to flip between FPV camera and GoPro (for image framing when in flight), which is done via the transmitter?

cheers again,

Nick

[flybywire]

Cheers for the sound advice Andy.

I was thinking this myself and not to use the GP as an FPV camera. People say CCD is better than CMOS for an FPV camera, around 3.6mm lens type, is this correct do you think?

Finally, being a newbie, do I just install a 2 or 3-way video switch, to flip between FPV camera and GoPro (for image framing when in flight), which is done via the transmitter?

cheers again,


Nick

Hi Nick
There are several ways to see what the gopro sees in your fpv goggles/screen, The most basic (and one method I';ve used on one of my quads) is to mount the fpv cam on the same gimbal as the gopro.  I think it';ll work fine with a brushless gimbal, as long as the fpv cam is not too heavy.  Another option, if it';s purely for framing still shots, is to use the WiFi link from your iPhone/iPad to monitor the gopro.  This way, you will see exactly what the gopro see';s, also you will be able to trigger the shutter for stills as well.  Downside (and I have tried it!) is that there is a 5 second lag on the transmission, because of the WiFi link.  Bummer!  But it';s still useful for framing aerial photography ';stills'; in certain situations, but is further limited by WiFi range being c. 100m or so outdoors.  Ideally there would be a pilot flying the craft, and you would then give directions & frame the shots yourself, certainly do-able I think.
I think the gimbal option is probably favourite, and I';ll likely be trying it on my new hex with this camera I bought a few weeks ago:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=39696
I do like Immersion gear! 
I noticed this on the HK site as well:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__39648__Fatshark_600TVL_High_Resolution_FPV_Tuned_Pan_Tilt_CMOS_Camera.html
With the built in pan & tilt, you could use the built in ';head tracker'; sensor in the Fat Shark Attitude goggles for some real fun!  So many times I find myself flying in a tight situation, and would love to be able to use head tracking to look around for clearance with trees etc, without needing to rotate the quad!
Their stock appears to be at an all time low at the moment, but if you don';t mind paying a few More spondulics, firstpersonview.co.uk sell most of the Immersion stuff, and do offer first class tech support. (not a plug just a fact!).

[QuadBod]

The most basic (and one method I';ve used on one of my quads) is to mount the fpv cam on the same gimbal as the gopro.  I think it';ll work fine with a brushless gimbal, as long as the fpv cam is not too heavy.

The design of brushless gimbals is such that everything has to be perfectly balanced, so trying to mount a board camera on the same gimbal is going to really mess things up, particularly for a smaller gopro gimbal. It would work with a servo gombal though.

Another option, if it';s purely for framing still shots, is to use the WiFi link from your iPhone/iPad to monitor the gopro.  This way, you will see exactly what the gopro see';s, also you will be able to trigger the shutter for stills as well. 

Be careful there. If your radio gear is 2.4GHz, having the gopro transmitting wifi right next to your sensitive RC receiver is asking for trouble.

[nickyb]

Hi Nick
There are several ways to see what the gopro sees in your fpv goggles/screen, The most basic (and one method I';ve used on one of my quads) is to mount the fpv cam on the same gimbal as the gopro.  I think it';ll work fine with a brushless gimbal, as long as the fpv cam is not too heavy.  Another option, if it';s purely for framing still shots, is to use the WiFi link from your iPhone/iPad to monitor the gopro.  This way, you will see exactly what the gopro see';s, also you will be able to trigger the shutter for stills as well.  Downside (and I have tried it!) is that there is a 5 second lag on the transmission, because of the WiFi link.  Bummer!  But it';s still useful for framing aerial photography ';stills'; in certain situations, but is further limited by WiFi range being c. 100m or so outdoors.  Ideally there would be a pilot flying the craft, and you would then give directions & frame the shots yourself, certainly do-able I think.
I think the gimbal option is probably favourite, and I';ll likely be trying it on my new hex with this camera I bought a few weeks ago:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=39696
I do like Immersion gear! 
I noticed this on the HK site as well:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__39648__Fatshark_600TVL_High_Resolution_FPV_Tuned_Pan_Tilt_CMOS_Camera.html
With the built in pan & tilt, you could use the built in ';head tracker'; sensor in the Fat Shark Attitude goggles for some real fun!  So many times I find myself flying in a tight situation, and would love to be able to use head tracking to look around for clearance with trees etc, without needing to rotate the quad!
Their stock appears to be at an all time low at the moment, but if you don';t mind paying a few More spondulics, firstpersonview.co.uk sell most of the Immersion stuff, and do offer first class tech support. (not a plug just a fact!).

Thanks again mate for the very detailed info here, is a great help.

TBH I will (once I get the quad) mount the camera on the frame and take your point about the head tracker because I hope to save up enough money for the attitude googles which I think comes with this. I';ll hunt around for a servo kit and like you say would certainly help on FPV flying.

Cheers

Nick

[Biffa]

My advice would be to forget complicating things with dual cameras and head tracking gimbals and just keep things simple to start off with.

It';s all very good having lots of fancy kit, but not so nice when you stuff it all into the deck.

[flybywire]

2.4 ghz radio is spread spektrum, so pretty much immune from WiFi interference, but I know that';s a debate that folk get animated about!
I';ve used it myself, no probs.

Andy

[QuadBod]

It';s reasonably immune from ground-based interference, but if you have an onboard 2.4GHz source sitting right next to the reciever (such as a GoPro with wifi enabled), at best it will reduce the range, and at worst can bleed all over the 2.4GHz spectrum your TX gear is on and block it altogether (hopefully before you take off!)

Not all 2.4GHz RC gear  is truly spread-spectrum - some are only two frequencies for example. There';s a good video on the subject on RC Model Review - I';d link to it, but youtube is down for me for some reason ( http://www.youtube.com/user/RCModelReviews/ )

So, I';m not saying you can';t fly (I';ve done it myself unintentionally with a GP3), just saying be careful with that, and range-test thoroughly if you';re going to risk it.

[mutley2]

Its not recommended to use GoPro as main camera.. for lot of reasons.. but main one being lag..

You might have got lag with a Gopro 1or2 but the Gopro3 black has no lag when used with a ImmersionRc VTX, Ive been flying with it for a while now and have no lag at all, its my only camera. After this comment I powered my Disco with the gopro and rocked it in my hand with my fatshark goggles on, no lag. Just thought I throw this in, hope it helps.