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18 Aug 2019 19:13:57
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Printing 3d Forum

How to get stability

Started by johnrs, Saturday,September 15, 2012, 13:24:13

Previous topic - Next topic

johnrs

After 2 weeks I am kind of airborne, however its very unstable and I cannot keep it in the air or long.

I am uploading a video now and will post link as soon as its done.

Basically some motors appear to be spinning faster that others so it does not lift off evenly.

Also when its near lift off there appear to be a surge of power which you can hear in the video.  The spinning in the biggest problem as its spinning out of control and I have to throttle down.

This video is more like that I was expecting so not sure what I am doing wrong  (this video is not mine)



I will link my video when done
New to Quads but loving it

My YouTube Channel

Techie-Review

sausageroll

These things never behave well when they are on the ground or taking off. It will do odd things when its about to lift off, the best thing is to get it into the air quickly and off the ground. What board are you using?


Gaza07

What I see in that video is some one learning to fly and they are doing quite well, its just not easy, although it is easier with a copter that has auto level, the kk is the most basic of flight controllers and offers no auto correction at all, what ever angle you put it at is what it will stay at so its a bit like trying to balance a marble in the middle of a beer tray, the kk has also always had a bit of drift on the yaw one way or the other and this can be trimmed with the transmitter, or motors can be tilted slightly to combat it but it will still drift a little, the guy in the video is doing what most new fliers do and that is to over compensate with the sticks, it would probably help him if he had dual rates and expo set up to soften his stick movements, although this does get better with more experience, while some thing like the naza is so much more stable and a bit easier to fly it still doesn't fly its self and you still have to learn to fly,
learning on something like the KK is good because once you have masterd it you will be able to fly any of them with ease  ~~

johnrs

I thought the guy in the video was doing quite well and this is what I was expecting

Here is my video.  I did take the quad out the front of the house where I have more room to see if it was nerves and lack of space but all the happened when it got into the air was lift off and spin away

Video is a little long

The board I have is this KK Flight Board and is flashed with this QuadControl V4.7 (plus and X mode) firmware

http://youtu.be/t6DcAB72X2Q?hd=1

Would the AIOP resolve some of my stability problems ?



New to Quads but loving it

My YouTube Channel

Techie-Review

sausageroll

Actually gaz, I would disagree...

The nasa does fly itself, all the 'pilot' does is tell it which direction to go in. Its like standing on the ground going FORWARD A BIT. BACK A BIT. LEFT... LEFT A BIT MORE... SPIN ROUND A BIT. NOW FORWARD FOR ABOUT 10 SECONDS. STOP!!!!

its a piece of ******. You dont fly the nasa you just direct it.

Gaza07

Actually I would disagree with you not about what the Naza can do which it does very well, but the term flying it self, it cant do that as you said you have to input stick movements for it to go any where, I would however agree the naza does hover it self and keep its position very well using gps, but it is still prone to the same forces when taking of as any controller is, it is definitely  the most stable platform in its price range and very easy to control but flying is some thing you do with stick inputs, would you let a complete novice have a go with your copter probably not because as good as the naza is it wont fly it for them but it does make things much easier, maybe you under estimate your own skills were you a complete novice to rc flying when you got your naza ?
Now if you bought a wookong that will take of fly where ever you tell it via telemetry and come back and land cant argue with that you probably dont even need to touch the tx  ~~


Quote from: sausageroll on Saturday,September 15, 2012, 19:10:50
Actually gaz, I would disagree...

The nasa does fly itself, all the 'pilot' does is tell it which direction to go in. Its like standing on the ground going FORWARD A BIT. BACK A BIT. LEFT... LEFT A BIT MORE... SPIN ROUND A BIT. NOW FORWARD FOR ABOUT 10 SECONDS. STOP!!!!

its a piece of ******. You dont fly the nasa you just direct it.

sausageroll

I would define flying as pilot input to control the aircraft... since the naza auto levels and stays still with GPS, your not really controlling much. With the naza, you dont have to 'fly' it like you do with a KK or something like that, if you move it left, you dont have to dab the stick right to get it to stop. You do fly the naza but its so simple and easy, its not really skilful. This is assuming your just slowly sliding about the sky to position the platform for photos etc, not flying acrobatically or anything like that.

The guy im building the hexacopter for will fly it with very little tuition or time, he will be fine with it, once ive shown him the basics.


Gaza07

That's kind of what I was trying to say hovering isnt flying, but agree the naza is a very good controller for experienced pilots or novices alike as all that stability can be turned off and give it a good thrashing  ::)
and it can help a lot towards building a novices confidence  ~~

Gaza07

QuoteWould the AIOP resolve some of my stability problems ?


That's a tough one to answer for a couple of reasons, first of all I haven't flown your copter so don't know how it handles, it could be a right handful then again it might not, it would probably be helpful to most new fliers to have their copter tested by some one who already flies to remove any doubt that it does in their minds, and it might be new flier nerves that are holding you near the ground and stopping you just getting in to the air, all new fliers go through the same thing the take off isn't easy until you have done it a few times and built confidence, some thing with auto level is certainly easier but you still have the same problems on take off, I know I said the KK is the most basic controller but that doesn't mean it cant fly well because it can, A kk copter can look very stable in a more experienced pilots hands but you cant just let go of the sticks like you can with the naza or some of the other controllers once its in an hover

here's a video of my KK


sausageroll

My last crash was due to novice confidence lol

Gaza07

Was it novice over confidence  :whistling:

Quote from: sausageroll on Saturday,September 15, 2012, 20:13:21
My last crash was due to novice confidence lol

sakiskoz

This my first quad with HK kk board in Plus mode and fly very stable, in this video fly it my son


icedfusion

Quote from: johnrs on Saturday,September 15, 2012, 16:08:47
I thought the guy in the video was doing quite well and this is what I was expecting

Here is my video.  I did take the quad out the front of the house where I have more room to see if it was nerves and lack of space but all the happened when it got into the air was lift off and spin away

Video is a little long

The board I have is this KK Flight Board and is flashed with this QuadControl V4.7 (plus and X mode) firmware

http://youtu.be/t6DcAB72X2Q?hd=1

Would the AIOP resolve some of my stability problems ?


If your quad just wants to keep spinning when you throttle up, then you need to reverse your yaw gyro. I cannot recall how that is done, but it should be in the manual/readme with the code you have.

ice.

teslahed

Quote from: icedfusion on Saturday,September 15, 2012, 21:55:00
If your quad just wants to keep spinning when you throttle up, then you need to reverse your yaw gyro. I cannot recall how that is done, but it should be in the manual/readme with the code you have.

ice.


I was just going to suggest the same thing - it seems almost stable but wants to spin, which does suggest the yaw gyro is reversed.

// Gyro direction reversing
// ------------------------
// set Roll Gain pot to zero
// power on
// led flashes 3 times
// move stick Up/Left for Normal, Down/Right for reverse
// eg: to set Yaw Gyro Normal, move Tx Yaw stick left, or to reverse it move Yaw stick right


'reverse' may be normal and vice versa so if you try this and it doesn't help try it with the stick the other way.
One circlip short of a quadcopter.
 1 lobe short of an antenna.

secretman

look like too mutch stick put some expotential on your command , or put dual rate in a hover im using like 5% of the travel.... coud be just that

Quote from: johnrs on Saturday,September 15, 2012, 13:24:13
After 2 weeks I am kind of airborne, however its very unstable and I cannot keep it in the air or long.

I am uploading a video now and will post link as soon as its done.

Basically some motors appear to be spinning faster that others so it does not lift off evenly.

Also when its near lift off there appear to be a surge of power which you can hear in the video.  The spinning in the biggest problem as its spinning out of control and I have to throttle down.

This video is more like that I was expecting so not sure what I am doing wrong  (this video is not mine)



I will link my video when done

johnrs

Thanks for your replies.

I will try reversing the yaw and see if that makes any difference.  Would it not just then spin the other way ?

I noticed in the videos above posted by Gaz & sakiskoz that on take off you seemed to have a lot of throttle control and it dosent want to lurch into the air.  If you watch my video at about 34sec in you suddenly hear the motors going faster.  This is not me putting extra throttle on.  The at about 1:20 I seem to have the motors slowly throttling up the suddenly it going mad again.

I am sure nerves are playing a big part in this but the spinning away is not helping and the sudden throttle.  If it was like the last few videos posted where you can hear a steady throttling up and and the quad slowly coming off the ground I am sure I would be much more at easy.

If someone has a Turnigy 9X could you post some info on how to put exponential on or set dual rate.  would this help with a smother throttling up ?

Thanks for all your help.  Much appreciated   
New to Quads but loving it

My YouTube Channel

Techie-Review

Gaza07

Hi John I'm not sure if your yaw gyro is reversed or not but its worth a try to check it normally when the yaw sensing is reversed it spins much worse as it is trying to correct the error but applies yaw the wrong way so exponentially gets worse,
As for the expo and dual rates you might have to refer to the manual for your radio as I'm not familiar with it, there is also the option to set up a throttle curve which allows to to edit the way the throttle is applied again the details should be in the user manual,
The offer is still there if you would like me to check your copter for you  ~~

johnrs

Hi

Thanks.  I am out for much of the day so want have much time to play today   :(

If the weather look OK next weekend could we arrange something and meet up ?

New to Quads but loving it

My YouTube Channel

Techie-Review

Gaza07

Yea Im sure we could sort some thing out  ~~

sakiskoz

With HK kk board i had to reverse the yaw gyro when i try to fly in x mode with same to yours FW and i had the same bad fly like you but when i reverse it it fly very well see my video with x mode.




sakiskoz

And this video is with better calibrating of seed controller. The best for you is to accept the invitation Gazza to check your copter


johnrs

Hopefully I can sort something out next weekend if its not raining

Have to say after 2 weeks its starting to ****** me off now.  Just went to try and reverse the yaw (thought I would try up right first) and the bloody thing has just flipped and broke another prop.

I new it would not be easy to get to grips with but this is taking the ******..

Just don't understand why when I throttle up slowly its seems fine then all of a sudden there is loads
New to Quads but loving it

My YouTube Channel

Techie-Review

johnrs

seem to be back at square 1 again 

This is my layout.  1&4 being CW and 2&3 CCW

1    3
   O
2    4

prop 4 is spinning up high and is going to flip the quad with the slightest throttle.  Not sure why this is happening now as I am going over and over my setting.    Could this be down to having crap motors and esc's ?

Just looking at my TX (Turnigy 9X) under Menu -> System -> Type Sel -> Heli I have 5 options

Heli 1
Heli 2
Heli 3 -1
Heli 3 -2
Heli 4

Each has a different picture.  know what this mean. Manual is not clear (or I just don't understand what its telling me)
New to Quads but loving it

My YouTube Channel

Techie-Review

Gaza07

No wonder your having problems you must set your radio to a plane model memory,
helicopters use ccpm and have some very weird mixing going on, that could make your copter do exactly what you have described  ;)
Reset your model to a plane and retest I have a feeling you may have found your problem  ~~

johnrs

Now I want to finish work early and go home and try this.

I was just about to make another post as I didn't see your reply till just now.    Is there just 1 plane model ?
New to Quads but loving it

My YouTube Channel

Techie-Review

Gaza07

I thought I had mentioned this some where oops just made another post about it  :embarrassed
there is only one Aero mode there are mixes that can be added to it but they should all be off by default  ~~

johnrs

You could well have told me this.  My head is spinning with so much new info its hard to keep it all in   :wack0

Should be home by about 5.30 so if its not raining I will straight into the garden to test
New to Quads but loving it

My YouTube Channel

Techie-Review

pheasant_plucker

Don't forget to calibrate the ESC's It might be worth doing again if your switching to Aero mode.

Gerry
The man serving me in the canteen said "Look, You can see the face of Jesus in the Margarine" The Asian guy next to me replied "I can't believe it's not Budda"
http://www.namfc.co.uk/pictures/fly.gif

johnrs

Thats me grounded again till new props arrive tomorrow or wednesday

On a plus note the throttling seemed better but again motor 4 (CW) and possible motor 2 (CCW) want to spin up faster casing it to flip and have just broken another prop   :angry:

Was so excited that I might get this <insert appropriate swear word here> into the air even if it was only for a few mins

New to Quads but loving it

My YouTube Channel

Techie-Review

sakiskoz

If understand from that you write your transmitter is in heli mode you must set in plane mode and if you make this you must recalibrate your ESC's.
After that try to fly but throttle very soft. If copter spin left or right hard maybe you must reverse Yaw pot
dont  open abruptly throttle .
Good lack