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3d - Printworx

Printing 3d Forum

Looks like we'll be getting some new members soon.....

Started by Tony Campbell, Monday,August 26, 2013, 11:26:40

Previous topic - Next topic

Tony Campbell

http://www.horizonhobby.co.uk/aeroonline/e13_blade/e13-blh7800/e13-350-qx.html


New 350 size quad from horizon hobbies. Comes with a gopro mount, gps and some autonomous features. Looks good, and knowing horizons excellent service backup first hand, would make an excellent entry into the hobby. Its expected to be available mid september. Price (I';m guessing), I reckon will be around 400 ish for BNF, if they do a BNF. Will be interesting to see what FC they have used.

Calomile

I';ve been watching this recently, it does look like a great interim quad for those who don';t wish to make their own. Could be a good competitor to the Phantom - we';ll see!
I reverse polarities for fun.

QuadBod

"Recently, the demand for recreational aerial image and video capture has been rapidly increasingly amongst RC enthusiasts but until now, many have required a prior understanding or level of knowledge that precludes the casual and hobbyist user."

But that';s a good thing isn';t it?

Not being elitist, but there are huge benefits to competence and safety in having knowledge and understanding of how the "brick with spinning razor blades attached" (as I once saw them described) works, because you built it. And even then, things can go wrong.

I appreciate the benefits of manufacturers quality control compared to a less skilled hobbyist doing a DIY botch job, and in a micro it makes perfect sense, but quads like this and the DJI Phantom give me the willies, because any idiot can fly one without an appreciation of the risks, or knowledge of safe flight practices, or even a basic understanding of how it works.

Ross

Quote
any idiot can fly one without an appreciation of the risks, or knowledge of safe flight practices, or even a basic understanding of how it works.

~~
You are correct and this makes them a danger to everyone AND  the hobby.
Let's be careful out there.
SAFETY is.. NO accident.

kilby

Hmm, idiots have been able to buy quads (or ant other flying thing)

What you are talking about is idiots with less money can buy them now.

Idiots can also buy the pieces and put them together.

Not much kit, but what I have I like
Armattan Tilt 2, Morphite 180, Quark 150, Decapitated NanoQX
Taranis+

rickp

Saw this at their stand at the nationals. Looked like quite a sturdy little thing and should be good fun for those who want a more turn-key approach...

Calomile

Quote from: kilby on Tuesday,August 27, 2013, 09:54:18
Hmm, idiots have been able to buy quads (or ant other flying thing)

What you are talking about is idiots with less money can buy them now.

Idiots can also buy the pieces and put them together.


There';ll always be idiots and there';s nothing that can be done about that. What we have to do is show that there are responsible pilots and try to give the hobby a better image than they can do to damage it. The problem is that there';s already bad press for the hobby with the whole ';drone'; image and the publics perception of spying.

Write your answers on a post card...
I reverse polarities for fun.

Toledodave

Wow....you guys should be on the welcoming committee!  You sure know how to encourage new people to the hobbie. Your worried about bad reputations to the hobby and listen to yourselves. Because somebody lacks the knowledge you may have and their an idiot?     You should be ashamed.

kilby

Not sure what it looks like to you Dave but I found some of the earlier comments  high handed and arrogant.

I certainly don';t want to see the snobbish fixed wing attitude of, it';s made of foam, its electric or it';s not scratch built, so go away!

People want to fly things, as long as people realise that they';re not toys and need to put some thought into the matter.

Should be helping / educating people abd not complaining about here come the masses.

Theres enoygh storied on this site to shiw that we are not perfect
Not much kit, but what I have I like
Armattan Tilt 2, Morphite 180, Quark 150, Decapitated NanoQX
Taranis+

Toledodave

I agree. I dont understand. This is a new and growing hobbie. I would have guessed support groups would be a benefit in this industry and forums and help it grow and advance as products are developed. Products are only developed by demand. If we continue to bash on new inquiring prospects to the hobbie and push ppl away how do you expect the demand to go up. It was very disturbing for me to see that kind of support. If thats the attitude were gonna gain when we advance from noob....im going to find another hobbie. I think some poeple need to get off their high horse and help educate rather then masterbate these ppl away.

Tony Campbell

Personally, being in the trade, I see all types of people enter many of the different rc hobbies. A very large percentage give it a try, and I reckon only about 15-20% stay in the hobby. Ready to fly aircraft of all types have been available for many years and lots of complete beginners have bought them. Any that I have sold have always come with a personal recommendation to join a local club, or at least get insurance. You can only advise people, but once they are out of the shop........
I have to say, with the price of complete packages (well, decent ones anyway), the thought of losing the lot on the first flight has a sort of, self governing effect. These quads are no more dangerous than an 1/8 scale monster truck doing 40mph, weighing 12-14 lbs, hitting you in the leg. Its going to break bones. So, although there is a high danger level, it isnt any worse than any other model. As someone has already said, it isn';t rocket science to put your own quad together, nor is it difficult to buy a ready to run quad package from Peter King. So, to cut a long story short, I welcome any new release of new gear for our hobby.

Hands0n

With all the media and people interest there is bound to be a certain commoditising of this hobby. Is that such a bad thing?  I think not.

As a lifelong motorcycle rider, trainer blah blah blah, I see the same breed of "idiot" to use this thread';s word. They drive a chill into me to see the antics they get up to and the sheer ignoring of basic safety like appropriate attire. They only wear a helmet because it is illegal (and massively inconvenient if caught) not to.   And as Tony says, there is a certain regulating going on in that sport, even if it has a certain Darwinistic theme to it [regrettably].

So with this hobby newbs like myself come along - and I can say that some of the early and not so early frustrations make one think seriously about doing something else.  I';ve been through several RTF helicopters that are now stashed away in the loft or disposed of, broken and abandoned.

I think it vital for forums to be as impartial to this trend as is possible. We must avoid appearing, or being, elitist. 

People will come and go, this is expensive, it isn';t particularly easy (even if some of y';all make it look so - but then I make motorcycling look easy  ::) ).  The reward is there for the stayers, those who are enthusiastic and keen, the hobbyist.  The rest, I fancy, will go the same way as CB radio did back in the 1970s. An expensive fad that became popular and commoditised, prices fell, and then returned to the hobbyists over a period of a few years.

--
Danny
"Its better than bad, its good"

Current FCs: Pixhawk, APM 2.6, Naza M V2, Naze32, Flip32+ CC3D, KK2.1.5
Aircraft: miniMax Hex, DJI 550 (clone) TBS Disco, 450 Firefly, 250 Pro, ZMR250, Hubsan X4, Bixler 2

Friskle

Quote from: QuadBod on Tuesday,August 27, 2013, 00:56:35
"Recently, the demand for recreational aerial image and video capture has been rapidly increasingly amongst RC enthusiasts but until now, many have required a prior understanding or level of knowledge that precludes the casual and hobbyist user."

But that';s a good thing isn';t it?

Not being elitist, but there are huge benefits to competence and safety in having knowledge and understanding of how the "brick with spinning razor blades attached" (as I once saw them described) works, because you built it. And even then, things can go wrong.

I appreciate the benefits of manufacturers quality control compared to a less skilled hobbyist doing a DIY botch job, and in a micro it makes perfect sense, but quads like this and the DJI Phantom give me the willies, because any idiot can fly one without an appreciation of the risks, or knowledge of safe flight practices, or even a basic understanding of how it works.


But its the same with anything, you can go buy a fixed wing artf or RTF, anyone can build one also, but even knowing what your doing, does not stop anyone being a prat with what they have.

plus as with most hobbies like this, you have those that like to build then fly, and those that would rather just buy and fly, the latter does not make a person an idiot.
Yuneec Q500+
Yuneec Typhoon H
Nano QX2
Nano QX3D
Blade 180QX
Blade 200QX
DJI 450 frame + Naza M V2 = GPS
ZMR 250
250 Pro - Dys 2300kv motors , Naze32 Acro
300 Folding Frame sporting a Naza Lite + GPS

QuadBod

Quote from: Friskle on Wednesday,August 28, 2013, 02:32:07
But its the same with anything, you can go buy a fixed wing artf or RTF, anyone can build one also, but even knowing what your doing, does not stop anyone being a prat with what they have.


I agree but - with an artf, rtf (or whatever) plane, you';re effectively forced to find a somewhat open space to fly in which takes away one risk factor of flying in populated / residential / built-up areas etc. Second, you';re unlikely to be successful at anything other than crashing without help, so a seasoned flyer almost has to be involved whether through a friendship or club membership. Any decent modeller will be happy to help a newbie who wants to learn, RTF or not. A beginner RTF leccy will typically have a less powerful motor and (single) prop, and doesn';t weigh that much compared to one of these midsize RTF quads.

A mid-size RTF multi, OTOH, can be flown anywhere, whether appropriate or not. No-one else need be involved, which admittedly has it';s benefits rather than having to sync up with a buddy, especially given that there is much shared knowledge and experience on forums such as this one, but does mean that some critical early advice may get missed before it';s needed.

Quote from: Friskle on Wednesday,August 28, 2013, 02:32:07
plus as with most hobbies like this, you have those that like to build then fly, and those that would rather just buy and fly, the latter does not make a person an idiot.


I didn';t say that anyone that flies one is an idiot, but that [it makes it easy for] any idiot to fly one. I do agree with Tony that price will have a self limiting effect, but we can expect more incidents, accidents and resulting regulation as these things get further commoditized.

Tony Campbell

After thinking about it somewhat, I reasoned (to myself at least  :laugh:) that someone coming into the hobby might have a fighting chance of buying an artf multicopter and having incident free first flights. What I mean is, the chance of getting something wired wrongly, or setup improperly, with a self assembled multi made from various internet aquired components, would be greater. This might end in a flyaway, with the eventual gravity induced ending, possibly being dangerous. So, looking at it from that point of view, I have no doubt that the ease of purchase of an artf quad, will cause no more incidents than happens already, with other facets of RC. I';d much prefer to look on the bright side and see the possible benefits to our hobby, afterall, todays noob might be tomorrows innovator within multis  ~~

Tony Campbell

Wednesday,September 04, 2013, 22:02:45 #15 Last Edit: Wednesday,September 04, 2013, 22:11:06 by Tony Campbell
Just couldn';t resist....... forward ordered one while at work today :evil Should be in the UK in about a week or so!!! I';ll do a mini review when I get it if anyone is interested? Just watched this video demoing the different modes..... looks really good. It';ll be interesting to see if they';ve developed an FC themselves, or if its one we already know?

This vid:   http://www.horizonhobby.co.uk/aeroonline/e13_blade/e13-blh7800/e13-350-qx-video-modes.html#info

rickp

Reviews always interesting. I see there';s also a Walkera one stocked by HK too..

DarrellW

There is always going to be people buying these models and anything else RC for that matter who don';t care about or ignore basic safety when using them, unfortunately these people can potentially give the hobby a bad name if anything untoward happens and it gets the wrong sort of attention.
In reality we who are more responsible can';t do much about this except do our best to make sure we are not open to criticism and do our best to promote the hobby as being a safe and good hobby to be involved in; at the end of the day we don';t want to have any restrictive legislation forced upon us do we?
I think..........I think I am........therefore I am.............I think!

Marty McFly

Quote from: Tony Campbell on Wednesday,September 04, 2013, 22:02:45
Just couldn';t resist....... forward ordered one while at work today :evil Should be in the UK in about a week or so!!! I';ll do a mini review when I get it if anyone is interested? Just watched this video demoing the different modes..... looks really good. It';ll be interesting to see if they';ve developed an FC themselves, or if its one we already know?

This vid:   http://www.horizonhobby.co.uk/aeroonline/e13_blade/e13-blh7800/e13-350-qx-video-modes.html#info


Hi Tony the FC bears close resemlance to the Naza,I wounder if they have done similar to what they did with the Beast FBL and rebadged the Naza,time will tell,Marty. :scotland:

Hands0n

Wednesday,September 04, 2013, 23:22:19 #19 Last Edit: Wednesday,September 04, 2013, 23:28:35 by Hands0n
@Tony C - that';ll be a rather interesting thing to read about.  I just watched the manufacturer';s video and it looks like a great entry-level quad with quite advanced features.   In some ways I';m glad to see this stuff arrive. It does rather set the bar for that part of the industry.

May I ask what it cost, and which model?
--
Danny
"Its better than bad, its good"

Current FCs: Pixhawk, APM 2.6, Naza M V2, Naze32, Flip32+ CC3D, KK2.1.5
Aircraft: miniMax Hex, DJI 550 (clone) TBS Disco, 450 Firefly, 250 Pro, ZMR250, Hubsan X4, Bixler 2

Tony Campbell

If I remember correctly, and I could be wrong, I think its around £300 BNF full rrp. I didn';t pay a lot of attention to the price tbh cos I work in the shop and get a very special deal. I';ll check it out on Friday (day off tomorrow) and report back with correct price. A quick google shows pre-order prices from various places of 270-280, so thats usually the normal 10% discount. That makes my 300 correct. I';ll get some top-off pics when it arrives and some decent pics of the board etc as close up as I can. The RTF including the newer version of the DX5 tranny with the 3 pos switch is going to be an extra 50 quid.

Hands0n

That';s put it right in the affordable bracket for hobbyists. But nicely high to discourage all and sundry.  Very likely to attract the curious with high disposable incomes. So it could help limit the number of non hobbyist buyer.  It will attract the hobbyist who is not a builder.

That said, it does look like a very well thought out aircraft design. It must be very light to get 15 minutes flight out of a 3S 2200mAh LiPo.

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk 4

--
Danny
"Its better than bad, its good"

Current FCs: Pixhawk, APM 2.6, Naza M V2, Naze32, Flip32+ CC3D, KK2.1.5
Aircraft: miniMax Hex, DJI 550 (clone) TBS Disco, 450 Firefly, 250 Pro, ZMR250, Hubsan X4, Bixler 2

Tony Campbell

I would treat the advertised flying time with healthy scepticism. It may be possible, but you would have to be slowly stooging about. I';m guessing at a normal 10 mins. However, according to the interwebs, the space for battery is a bit restrictive, but I';m wondering if the frame can be modded to accept a slightly bigger battery? Time will tell  ~~

Tony Campbell

I got an update from the staff at HorizonUK today. The container ship has docked, and they may have them tomorrow. If they get them in the morning, they';ll be dispatching them to the shops in the afternoon. That';ll mean they';ll hit the shelves on monday due to their couriers not delivering to commercial premises on a Saturday. If they come in late tomorrow, shipping wont happen till Monday because they want all shops to get them on the same day. Got to say, they do work in a fair minded manner. So, it looks like Tuesday at the latest, which is good for me as I work in the shop on Tuesdays!!!! Cant wait, quite excited to see what they are like. At least I know the after sales backup is great from them, which nowadays, is a big plus! ~~

Tony Campbell

My day off today....... got a text from work. The quad arrived!!!! Cant wait till tomorrow. And to top it all, I';m not busy doing anything else tomorrow night, so I';ll get a chance for a decent look.

kilby

Keen to hear what it';s like as I have a mate considering one (he has been flying smaller helis for years)
Not much kit, but what I have I like
Armattan Tilt 2, Morphite 180, Quark 150, Decapitated NanoQX
Taranis+

Tony Campbell

I';m hoping to do a brief review for the forum. Nothing too in depth as its been advertised for ages, so the specs are easily available. Theres not much to adjust on it currently although Horizon say that they intend to have a GUI interface for adjustments eventually. So, the upshot is, it better fly really well out of the box!!! If its a pile of poop, I';ll say its a pile of poop  ::)

Tony Campbell

Managed to get out for a brief flight with the XQ350 this evening. Conditions were very overcast, cold with a mild breeze. The quad seems to be very well put together and well thought out. Plastic quality is ok, and fit of parts is excellent. The built in leds are bright and easy to see. Battery space is ';limited';, but looking inside the battery compartment, there appears to be moulded in battery stops. Until I get fed up one day and strip the bodyshell off, I cant tell if its possible to adapt the inside for a bigger battery than the 2200 3 cell that is supplied. Plugging in the battery does not activate the electronics. The quad has a small on/off switch underneath, that activates the the electronics, accompanied by some sound tones reminicent of a nintendo gameboy. The flight controller has the rx built in, making the quad a spektrum only system. Setting up the transmitter is simplicity itself. Blade, provide a basic instruction manual (full manual available on their website) which has a table of transmitter settings for the full range of Spektrum radios.

Three main modes are available, Smart mode, Stability mode and Agility mode.

Smart mode combines altitude control, position hold and simple mode, allowing very easy control of the quad regardless of its orientation to the pilot and reduces its bank angle to prevent over control.

Stability mode combines position hold and reduced bank angle. This mode allows you to fly about at surpringly high speed, but on releasing the right stick (mode 2), the quad goes into postion hold. Very useful if you get disorientated. Fast flight and power climbs are terrific in this mode, and I feel that perhaps my XQ350 will spend most of its time in this mode.

Agility mode is comparable to full acro mode in other FC';s. Control is unlimited and a bit twitchy for my personal taste, meaning I ended up dialling in 40% expo. I did manage a couple of flips though, and found them perhaps too easy to do. I think perhaps some more rate reduction is needed for my flying style.

Return to home worked faultlessly from every position I tried it from, returning to within 1-2 feet of its arming postion every time....... very impressed.

One thing I forgot to try, was the Safe Circle. This is a circle of safety around the pilot of 30 feet. In smart mode, the quad will not enter this circle, protecting the pilot from flying into himself. This circle is determined by the arming/home position, and requires the pilot to move back 15feet or so from the arming position before taking off.

The gps needed very little time to get its initial lock outside, even though the sky was completely overcast. I waited exactly 1 min 24 seconds before seeing the green light that indicated a gps lock. I have no doubt that the longer it is left, the better the gps accuracy would be.

On reading the full manual online, I found that its possible to calibrate sensors etc, by using various stick positions at the arming stage. It is not currently possible to adjust any PID settings but, Horizon have stated on other forums that they fully intend to release a GUI for windows that will allow firmware updates and some adjustments. I have to say, I dont feel that any adjustment are needed. Even fast descents show no signs of wobbles. Recovery at the bottom of a fast descent is quick and easy due to the amount of power thats available. I';m pretty sure that fitting fpv equipment is possible, in fact i think its already been done by others, and would turn this into a really good FPV platform.

Battery life was 9 mins of messing about doing various flying styles before I seen the first flickers of low battery light doiing full throttle climbs. Easy off the throttle made that light go out, so I';m sure I';d have got at least 11-12 mins if I';d have pushed it. Being it was the batteries first outing, I decided to be kind to it and call it a day.

All in all, I';m well impressed and would highly recommend it to anyone. Only problem I found was........ I didn';t build it myself!!  I have to say, I enjoy the building and sorting part of the hobby and this just doesn';t seem the same. It does fly like a good ';un though, so will be ideal for those dipping their toes in the water. I would suggest that even a beginner shoulf get the BNF version rather than the RTF. M y reason for saying this is, the DX5E that comes with the RTF, is a bit limiting if you want to expand your fleet to a home built quad and for this reason, I';d advise getting the BNF and buying at least a DX6i, tranny only deall. You can get them for about 80 quid and the difference in price between the RTF and BNF is 50 quid. Its a no brainer really.

Any questions, feel free to ask.  :beer2: