First flight up ends in tears

[johnrs]

I have just brought a x525 delux quadcopter and also a Turnigy 9x TX & RX. This setup comes with a KK FCB v5.5..

After a 2 evening I managed to get it all assembled and bits soldered and was ready to power on.  My excitement was soon replaced with frustration..  Anyway after hours of youtube videos and reading and some help it turns out that my FCB could be faulty.  Anyway long story short I now have another KK v5.5 which works   

But again excitement soon turned into fustration     Basically my own fault as I did not triple check the motors where spinning in the right direction and it flipped and a propeller broke

What took me by surprised was that the quadcopter seems to throttle quite quickly with only a little movement on the stick. Its seems to be as I move the throttle stick... nothing....nothing, then power... I was expecting the blades to rotate slower with not much power on so that I could ease the throttle up and take off slowly and throttle down if something was not right. As I put a little throttle on all of a sudden it flipped. (which I know what now)

Is it possible to make the throttle more sensitive or have I just not set the ESC up correctly.

Thanks again...

Cheers
John

[teslahed]

Have you calibrated your electronic speed controllers?

If your throttle response is not smooth, this could be the reason.

To calibrate your speed controllers, first take off your props. Turn on your transmitter and set the throttle to maximum (this is why you take the props off). Wire one of your electronic speed controllers up directly to the throttle channel on your receiver. Plug the speed controller into the power - you should hear it beep several time. When it stops beeping throttle down to minimum - it will beep again. Now your ESC knows the signal range it's getting from the transmitter and everything should work better. You need to do this once for each ESC. If you get bored doing it the slow way you can make yourself one of these to save time;

http://www.multi-rotor.co.uk/index.php/topic,288.0.html

The other possibility is that your quadcopter is simply overpowered. Smaller props would solve the problem in this case.

The KK 5.5 is a gyro only flight controller - it doesn't autolevel, it just keeps your quadcopter pointing whichever way you send it. Boards with decent auto-leveling make learning to fly much easier.

Having said that, once you can fly the KK5.5 on gyros only, you'll be able to fly pretty much anything. I started with a KK blackboard (which i think is very similar to what you have). It was fairly simple to set up (if not very user friendly) which made getting in the air quicker, but i think the MultiWii boards are better because they have more features and don't cost any more.

Here's a couple of videos of my first attempts;

Quadcopter test flight 2

Quadcopter test flight 3

[johnrs]

Thanks for replying on both my threads.

I will try your suggestion on setting  up the esc and see if that makes it any better.

Just need to get some new props now and think I will try some of these

http://www.uavshop.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=43&products_id=277&osCsid=9okb4cv1fo39j5lrotf5prcot0

Thanks again
John

[teslahed]

Those UAV shop props look very nice. I think they are the same as the 10 inch flyduino ones only shorter. For some reason flyduino sell glass fibre reinforced 10 inch props but only regular plastic 9 inch props - so if you want 9 inch props the UAV shop props may be slightly better quality. They do cost about twice as much though.

If you find the quadcopter is underpowered then you'll need to go up a size - but if it flies ok with 9 inch props you'll probably find they work better than 10 inch props because they are easier to balance and that makes a big difference to flight performance.

Also worth having a look at this manual for the KK board;

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kkmulticopter.com%2Fdownloads%2Fresources%2FKKmulticontroller%2520v.5.5.pdf&ei=xrpHUMrjNIPV0QWAuIH4Dw&usg=AFQjCNHK1lICD-y2cFck4udSnyRlXcz9Jw&sig2=HYmH8vSc8M_iosiWjpKlXQ&cad=rja

Page 13 section 3 describes another special method for calibrating your ESCs using the KK board. If you are having problems with throttle response it may be worth trying both methods.

[johnrs]

So do you think 9" blades or 10" to start with ?

http://www.uavshop.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=43&products_id=46&osCsid=9okb4cv1fo39j5lrotf5prcot0

Thanks for the info.  Gives me something to read at work today  :)

[Gaza07]

You could get some of each and then find out which suits your setup the best 

[teslahed]

UAV shop are based in the UK so i imagine delivery times are good. Flyduino are based somewhere in europe and i get my stuff in about 4 days from them which is also good. I would definitely recommend getting some of both sizes if you are not sure which would be best - you'll find it makes a difference.

[johnrs]

Cheers.

going to order a set of each I think.

[teslahed]

I'd recommend at least 1 and a half sets of each (6 props of a given size). Otherwise your first broken prop will require you to wait for more props to arrive which can be very annoying. Propellers count as consumables with quadcopters - especially when starting out

[Balders]

I'll second that, I have bought a bucket load of props (from giant shark mostly) during my multicopter owning days.  Pretty much consumables as has been said.

My hexa uses 8inch props but flys fine with 10", my tricopter uses 10" and is a bit wobbly with 12" although only 750kv motors.

[johnrs]

Humm..  didnt think to order any more that 1 set of each.

Hopefully I wont trash both sets this weekend    and I will be able to get a little flight time in.  Weather is looking good so fingers crossed.

Guess my next upgrade is going to be a new flight board.

[teslahed]

If you want a second hand free flight board;

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1548820

http://www.goodluckbuy.com/free-flight-ff-auto-balance-controller-with-3d-acceleration-sensor.html

I have one i can sell for £15 + postage. It would come with the board, the USB adapter and a cable. I've installed the Multiwii software on the board so it runs the same as any other basic MultiWii board - but it only has gyros and accelerometers (so it autolevels) but no barometer or compass or GPS. Unless you are good at electrical engineering you will find it almost impossible to upgrade with new sensors.

Most Multiwii boards are 8 bit. The Free Flight is 32 bit. It's running 'Timecops' port of the 8 bit multiwi code though (i installed that in place of the much more basic free flight code which is no longer updated) so it performs just the same as the rest of the multiwiis and you'd not notice the difference.



This is me flying one of the free flight boards;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ByXTYvH8Ls

I am using the 8 bit Multiwii boards now instead of the 32 bit free flight board because they are easier to mess about with the code and add more sensors and stuff - they are better for that. If you just want to fly there is no real difference that I've spotted.

[johnrs]

Looks interesting.

My electronic skills are rubbish, but for that price it I guess it would be a nice little upgrade to what I have.

Are you actively selling or is it just not being used.  Would you be able to wait a week ?

I guess I will be wanting to add features down the line like a barometer or compass or GPS.

[teslahed]

It's not being used at the moment - it will wait a week or two if you want. It's a basic board but with auto-leveling (and with the windows software) it's a step above what you have at the moment. The specific gyros and accelerometers it uses are a better than some of the cheapest multiwii boards too (GYRO; MPU3050 ACC; ADCL345) - so in theory the basic flight performance should be quite good compared to some - but i can't promise you you'd be able to tell much difference.

[johnrs]

What would be a good update to a board that I could add barometer or compass too ? and what sort of price range are they ?

[teslahed]

http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=761&productname=

Is an example of a cheap (about £25) 8 bit multiwii based flight controller with a barometer and compass as well as accelerometers and gyros. You could attach GPS but you'd need a GPS adapter module as well (due to memory limitations on the basic multiwii boards) which adds a little cost and weight when you come to do that.

Or you could buy one of these;

http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=765&productname=

which is a bit pricier, but you can attach the GPS directly and it has better quality sensors and more memory for more software options.

I wouldn't buy the cheaper one myself considering how much better the more fully featured board is.

I've attached a barometer and compass to my Free Flight board in the past. I took them off again - a compass doesn't do all that much good without GPS and the barometer gives you altitude hold to the nearest couple of meters or so, which is kind of handy, but you'll not have it on very often. In my experience the barometer is mostly used when i need a hand free to scratch an itch. I don't know anyone who flies around with the barometer and compass turned on.

But if you are less interested in stunt / fun flying and more interested in getting your quadcopter to carry a nice big digital SLR camera, then barometers, compasses and GPS start becoming more useful.

[johnrs]

I have just been looking at the Multiwii MWC SE Flight Control Board V1.0 and the GPS add on which came to about £45.  Take it this is an OK board ?

I would be looking to do some aerial video when I get the hang of fly it.

Are all power boards the same.  or will the one I have do.  I have this coming in the post

What are delivery times like from RCTimer ?

[teslahed]

The Multiwii MWC SE Flight Control Board V1.0 is fine, that's the first one i linked you to;
http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=761&productname=

To get GPS with that you'd need the GPS receiver and the adapter;
http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=763&productname=
http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=762&productname=

Total price comes to about $80 or just over £50

The All in One pro board;
http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=765&productname=
doesn't need the GPS adapter, so the total price is just under $90 or about £57.

Considering the All in one Pro board has more recent hardware and more memory, and looks to be getting very popular at the moment (so will be well supported by the community) i would pay the extra £7. It's much better hardware.

Both boards can run the Multiwii software but the All in one Pro has enough memory to install megapirate software instead, and probably take other flight control software too.

It will probably take you a month or two to get to the point where you are looking at doing aerial video and FPV and stuff though - so whether it's worth spending the money on a fully featured board before then is up to you. New stuff is coming out all the time and the old stuff is getting cheaper.

Are all power boards the same.  or will the one I have do.  I have this coming in the post

Most power boards work fine - they will have maximum amp ratings. As long as your maximum amp rating is high enough you should be ok. I would solder the power wires from the speed controllers straight to the power distribution board though - plugs add weight and can fail. You only need one plug on your power distribution board - to plug the lipo in - everything else is best soldered i find.

[Gaza07]

The Crius V1 is a very nice board but has older sensors as Chris says pay a few more pounds and get the Crius All In One Pro it has the new gyro / acc and the new ms5611 baro 

I have just received one from rctimer this morning and will be posting about the various set ups very soon 

[johnrs]

Thanks for the info  :)

I have just received one from rctimer this morning and will be posting about the various set ups very soon 

How long did it take to arrive ?

[teslahed]

RCtimer usually deliver in about a weeks time. Sometimes it takes as much as 2 weeks and once i had something from them in 3 days.

I think Gaza has been waiting on his crius all in on pro for a while though.

[johnrs]

Been doing a little reading on the all in one. Some good reviews. Tempted to get one from RCTimer.

Do you only need to change the power board if you change to a higher rated esc ??

[Gaza07]

It was ordered on the  20/8/12 and arrived today seemed a bit slow this time 

you shouldn't need to change your power board unless you have gone for some much larger esc's

Thanks for the info  :)


How long did it take to arrive ?

[johnrs]

you'll have to do a quick review of the board.  This could be my next upgrade   

[Gaza07]

There is a bit of soldering involved with connecting this board when using the gps and telemetry options but it is very basic wire joining and rx / tx type connections  all will be revealed I hope in my posts 

you'll have to do a quick review of the board.  This could be my next upgrade   

[johnrs]

look forward to your post :)

There is a bit of soldering involved with connecting this board when using the gps and telemetry options but it is very basic wire joining and rx / tx type connections  all will be revealed I hope in my posts 

[johnrs]

Small update and another question..

I have got a replacement esc and I was hoping to be airborne, but I now have come against another problem.

I was checking all the motors where spinning in the right direction when I got to one of them and it would throttle up high.  This was plugged into motor port 4 on the board. 

At first I thought this was the esc and it needed to be set so done this via the rx and it seems to be fine.  When plugged back into port 4 it did the same again.  No matter which esc is plugged into port 4 then it does the same so I am assuming that motor port 4 on the flight board is now setup right.  Does this sound possible ?

Thanks

[Gaza07]

Im not sure I understand what your saying John is motor 4 spinning up when it shouldnt or spinning more than the rest when the copter is flat and level 

[johnrs]

Hi

motors 1-3 when there is a little bit of throttle applied they spin but not enough to get into the air.  Motor 4 or what every motor is plugged into motor port for on the board will spin up real fast enough to flip it over again.

I have a USB programmer coming which I ordered over a week ago and should be here so I am hoping that its just the last person that used this board had a different config that the one I want.

[Gaza07]

This is one of the main problems with the KK boards as you cannot tell what mode it is flashed with,
the best thing is to do what you have and flash it for your self at least then you know its right and one less thing to check, If it is on the wrong config it would make things go weird like your saying as the motor speeds up it tries to compensate but because its set wrong the compensation it applies makes it worse so it applies more throttle and so on until it flips, same sort of thing happens with a motor in the wrong position to