Ultimate quad motors for long flight and payload

[sevet]

Hi,

So i have this idea boiling inside to build the ultimate Quad for long time and payload specifically brushless gimbal which adds (with landing) about 0.5kg and lots of batteries for the long flight (not a long flight with very light quad with no payload ability)

I stumbled upon the HL 4822 390kv which are available from a couple of places:

Original at Goodluckbuy:  http://www.goodluckbuy.com/hengli-w4822-390kv-outrnner-brushless-motor-for-quad-hexcopter-24n22p.html Most expensive
HobbyKing MultiStar: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__26957__Turnigy_Multistar_4822_390Kv_22Pole_Multi_Rotor_Outrunner.html  Cheapest, same as original, no stock....
Foxtech: http://www.foxtechfpv.com/foxtech-motor-w4822-kv390-p-623.html not too expensive, better casing (according to foxtech) and longer motor wires (50cm), in stock which is dropping rapidly now.

Using http://www.ecalc.ch/xcoptercalc.htm?ecalc&lang=en  I see that for some reason these motors have fantastic long time and payload abilities, i can drop more load of batteries and it flies reasonably more with out going to 80% throttle to hover, i can put one more kg instead of more batteries and still get 17 minutes flight (heavier camera with gimbal)

The problem and dilemma:
The calculations are with 6S battery and 15x5.5 props. (that will be screwed directly to the motor with the 12mm spaces holes)
The motor is rated 300W, ecalcs on hover gives me 150w and full throttle 409w!
At foxtech product page there is a table with 14x4.7 props and it says 355w although they state 300w....

I';m not planning on being at 100% throttle too much.
Is the max watt stated saying how much the motor produced or how much can it handle?
I know the problem is with heating, on ecalc if I put 450w for the motor it doesn';t show that it would heat up.

Should I buy this? any suggestions for similar motors?

*I know ecalc is not accurate but it gives a general ball part estimation, usually I can get more flight time with my setup than it shows. but it shows the deltas when changing the setup and the direction of it (more time/ less time/more heat/more hover throttle) is correct.

[Calomile]

I do believe that these are the same motors that EndOfDays is using over on rcgroups for his 1hr flight time quad, from what I understand they are very efficient and have a good power to weight ratio. You';ll have to let us know how you get on if you pick some up.

I think even with a reasonable payload you should get good times out if a 4s or bigger battery.

[sevet]

I do believe that these are the same motors that EndOfDays is using over on rcgroups for his 1hr flight time quad, from what I understand they are very efficient and have a good power to weight ratio. You';ll have to let us know how you get on if you pick some up.

I think even with a reasonable payload you should get good times out if a 4s or bigger battery.

do you mean this:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1880665
These are not the same motors, they are 5010-14 360kv, they are very efficient but not very strong, EndOfDays built a very lightweight quad for this.
My build isn';t going to be light weight, I';m not looking for the really long flight, 25 minutes will be great, my quad with gimbal will weight about 1.8kg.

Someone suggested to me Sunnysky v4010 375kv:
http://www.foxtechfpv.com/sunnysky-v401014-375kv-motor-p-861.html

Calculating I get about 2-3 minutes less from the HL 4822 on any setup: 15 instead of 17.5 and 23 instead of 25 minutes.....
On ecalc I only go a little over the Sunnysky rated power 450w, I get 490w, and on the chart it states 310w for the same props.

I can live with 2-3 minutes less.... Sunnysky is supposed to have higher quality, they come with the direct attach prop adapter (saves 4$ a piece...)
They are heavier and cost almost twice.... but i';m leaning towards them as I don';t want to be limited by overheating or worse destroy my investment.

[MOFO64]

The 5010/14s can';t be beaten for weight+power+efficiency/price.

Here';s my quad at AUW 1100g on 2x2200mah 4S Zippy compacts. At 2200g I get 21 minutes flying time.

35minute flight test

Those other motors are all atleast twice the weight of the 5010/14s and as much as three times the price. The weight alone is gonna chew out your flight-times.

[sevet]

I';m aware of the wonder of those cheap motors regarding long flight time but i';m concerned they are not powerful enough,
on ecalc: 360kv, 0.37 resistance 0.2@10 250w 14poles 30mm case
At 2200g with 4S battery, i see you need about 80% throttle to hover, is that correct? With 6S its at 37% (didn';t add the weight of 6S battary).

What does AUW stand for?
Does the 1100g weight include the battaries?

Problem is, I want a quad with brushless gimbal, my calculations are about 1800g before batteries

I';m constraint to 6S battaries as I have many 3S and will fly them 2 in serial , maybe 4 in 2x3S2P in serial.

And shifted my mind again towards the 5010.... they are cheap for first experiments.... maybe then there will be  a new motor.

The other motors don';t weigh twice, 5010 80g  4822 98g sunnysky 123g, they will chew my wallet though.... especially the sunnysky.

Didn';t see anyone with 5010 with 6S.....

[Ross]

AUW ( ALL UP WEIGHT). The complete model weight with everything on it.

Probably better if people did not use abbreviations that tend to confound newbies or if they must-- do it like I have.....

[guest325]

Have you thought about something like this:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__29414__Turnigy_Aerodrive_SK3_4240_620kv_Brushless_Outrunner_Motor_UK_Warehouse_.html
I';ve used SK3 motors in a lot of my planes and had 100% performance from them (they are made on the same production line as the Hacker motors are made so they should be good!!!

[sevet]

Have you thought about something like this:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__29414__Turnigy_Aerodrive_SK3_4240_620kv_Brushless_Outrunner_Motor_UK_Warehouse_.html
I';ve used SK3 motors in a lot of my planes and had 100% performance from them (they are made on the same production line as the Hacker motors are made so they should be good!!!

Those are huge, almost 200g..... they do not "eat" 6S battary.....

BTW: My current config is a quad with HL3525 850KV 8000Mah 3S 11x4.7 CF 1750g AUW    (not a newbi I think but I learn still... every hour....)
Without actually trying to, I once did 22 minutes flight. FPV, leds and all. 16 minutes same setup with 5800 3S.

If i will ad a brushless gimbal and landing gear to this setup I would probably get ~7-8 minutes.
I found that anything below 10 minutes seems shorter and after about 15 minutes I start thinking that I fly for a low of time.
10 minutes is a problem because with FPV you want to start going back at about 6-7 minutes and it took about 5 minutes getting there :)

So:
The very interesting: HL 4822 which might heat up (although I don';t think it will get there as on multi rotors you don';t have 100% throttle really)
The very expensive 375kv Sunnysky which are very powerfull but less fly time than the 4822 (2-3 minutes)
The wondrous 5010 360KV which I havn';t seen one 6S setup, are a bit weak (seems like they max at 1000g thrust but no one tried with 6S...),

Which one? I';m obsessed.... help please :)

[sevet]

And my daily find.... (really tough finiding the correct motors):

http://www.foxtechfpv.com/4114320kv-brushless-motorblack-p-1061.html

They are very new motors, with very nice spec with lots of nice improvments, a bit on the heavier side than the sunnysky but get better ecalc results even with weight consideration.... and cost 2/3 from the sunnysky, they also (almost) don';t get a warning from ecalc regarding watt with 1555 props (1 watt above, 50 watts above with sunnysky)

Some one on youtube with 4.15kg and 10000 6S got 23 minutes with them and mine will weigh almost a full 1kg less:

S-802 Quad Type with TAROT 4114/320KV, 23min flight time

Should I order already?
Just notice a 24 pole cound might be a problem for the ESC, i want a preflashed simonk from RCTIMER, will these work:
http://www.rctimer.com/product_850.html

They state:
Supported motor speed (Maximum): 210000 RPM (2 poles), 70000 RPM (6 poles), 35000 RPM (12 poles).
Can I assume: 17500 RPM with 24 poles? it should be "only" ~8000 RPM with 320kv and 6S 25V battery....

If not, which ESCs are recommended? need simonk compatible.

EDIT: The guy on the clip was using Funfly 40A esc which also state 35000 12pole on the hobbywing site.....

[arnonel]

What did you end up going with? Any updates?