NAZA M Gain settings

[rsmith21]

I';m still fine tuning my IFLY-4\NAZA  conversion and its going well.

Flight is reasonably stable and it won';t flip now when I suddenly release the Aileron stick :)

What I';m having problems solving is a merry little wiggle it does while descending, it seams to rock fairly quickly as it comes down, is there anything anyone can recommend for that. 

[ChrisH]

Haven';t cured that on mine yet! I';ve seen propwash as being one cause (I';m flying 10x38) but the new 3.12 is supposed to be better - I';ve not noticed that! 

Still playing with my gains to get the ideal (or at least best) settings since 3.12. 

[rsmith21]

Haven';t cured that on mine yet! I';ve seen propwash as being one cause (I';m flying 10x38) but the new 3.12 is supposed to be better - I';ve not noticed that! 

Still playing with my gains to get the ideal (or at least best) settings since 3.12. 

I have a set of Carbon fibre jobs that I was saving for when I';m better, I';ll give them a go :)

[XH558]

Haven';t cured that on mine yet! I';ve seen propwash as being one cause

Mine';s exactly the same - it IS propwash - - if you think about it you have 4 props churning up a storm downwards - and then you cut the throttle and drop into the washing machine you just created .....I reduce it by coming down with a bit of back elevator pulled in so it comes down at an angle Not perfect - but better 

If you watch the Heathrow Live programme on the TV at the moment in the evenings you see that air traffic control have to calculate the weight and engine thrust of each plane as it takes off or lands and work out a safe distance for the next plane in line to avoid the previous engine vortices - there is quite a difference .... same principle. 

[steve fh]

The wobbles are also worse if you have large props compared to the weight of the quad as the disc loading is lighter.

Smaller props bring up the disc load but may reduce hover flight time...... all about the best compromise.

I also get less wobble on Granuper/APC style props compared to the slowfly type

[rsmith21]

Yes I did watch the programme and its amazing the turbulence moving through air causes. I';ll try the descent at an angle combined with my CF props and see how I go, its does make sense now that you point it out 

[rsmith21]

Guys , I really need some help here, after flying fine for the few flights, the flip roll has returned.

All batteries good and a little blustery, All gains basically at around 100% it has flown well at this, but now .

http://youtu.be/xk4NudDCCUQ

[callaghan48]

Hi,
Are you sure its not an esc motor connection the IFLY4 ones work loose, they did on my Grandsons, do all you motors arm together ? or do they sick,
Naza, try to up gains, GPS 0 0 -10, 135 135 120 120 Will be more locked in and work from there, hope it helps
John

[rsmith21]

I reconfigured so that I can control the ATTI gain in flight, I had to turn it down to 45% , is that normal, the fact that I can do it suggests it may be required under certain configurations but has anyone else had to do that.

[SimonS]

I am 99% certain that your issue has nothing to do with the Naza.

The issue will either be (in order of descending likelyhood):

Duff bullet connectors
A dodgy ESC
A dodgy motor

First, remove and resolder all the bullet connectors on the motors. Then refly.  If the problem is still there then swap the two left ESC';s with the righthand ones.  If the problem swaps sides then it is an ESC. If not then it is likely to be a motor.  Swap two of the motors left to right (front or rear pair) and refly. If no change then swap the other pair.

When I say "swaps sides" I';m referring to which way it first starts to twitch on the video.

If I had to take a punt on where the problem lies I would say it';s the rear left.  Whether it is the bullets, ESC or motor is up to you to find out.

The Naza in ATTI or GPS will not cause the aircraft to fall out of the sky without input from the pilot.

[rsmith21]

I am 99% certain that your issue has nothing to do with the Naza.

The issue will either be (in order of descending likelyhood):

Duff bullet connectors
A dodgy ESC
A dodgy motor

First, remove and resolder all the bullet connectors on the motors. Then refly.  If the problem is still there then swap the two left ESC';s with the righthand ones.  If the problem swaps sides then it is an ESC. If not then it is likely to be a motor.  Swap two of the motors left to right (front or rear pair) and refly. If no change then swap the other pair.

When I say "swaps sides" I';m referring to which way it first starts to twitch on the video.

If I had to take a punt on where the problem lies I would say it';s the rear left.  Whether it is the bullets, ESC or motor is up to you to find out.

The Naza in ATTI or GPS will not cause the aircraft to fall out of the sky without input from the pilot.

Hi Simon, thanks for your ideas.

The quad is a fresh build, I converted an IFLY-4 to NAZA M Lite.  All of the bullets were tight and I taped the two halves with insulating tape as I put it together, I took great care with the soldering so all of the connections are fine. The motors all sound sweet and it flies fine on GPS !! its only happened when I fly ATTI mode. The ESCs are Turnigy 18A .

Does any of this give you a different feel for the problem.

[SimonS]

We';re the bullets soldered to the motors when you got them?  If so, have you removed them and re soldered them?  If not, then do so.

As I said, this is not a Naza problem. The only difference between ATTI and GPS is the position hold.

[rsmith21]

I put the X1 control back on the ATTI gain knob control, and went down the park again, turning the dial up as much as 10% turns it into a lawn mower, even in GPS mode, it could be because it windier, very gusty so its being pushed quite hard. I';ve manually set ATTI back to 45% and shifted the X1 control to the Balance gain, if the rain shower passes over I';ll get down and try again.

If the rain stays on I';ll strip and re solder the bullets, I know exactly what your getting at and there is a chance you will be right. I have to follow through with my own experiment, you know what its like I hope.

I really do appreciate your input and it has made me think it may be the connections, I was going to bypass the bullets and solder directly to the ESC wires, I may do that if the gain adjustment fails to cure it.

Thanks again Simon, much appreciated.

[SimonS]

Where abouts in the UK are you?

[rsmith21]

 

Following test flights with the gain so low it took 1\4 of a second to respond, then reverted to grass cutting mode I decided you must be right.

I came home and put it on the bench, took the props off and fired it up, shaking it and wiggling produced no real evidence of a problem, then I took each ESC in turn and gave it a little tug in each direction. You can see I have taped the connections to stop them coming out !The motors on two ESCs ( the back left and right as you suggested ) juddered and stopped then started again. You will see in the video exactly how I tested, I can';t say how grateful I am Simon your a life saver and that could be literally, if the quad shot sideways while taking of it could have been very dangerous.
Thanks again, you deserve a GOLD star 

http://youtu.be/7ZTxFSN2cWk

[SimonS]

Glad to have been able to help!

The default Naza settings as given in the manual are a very good starting point.  I can';t remember my exact settings but I think that they are something like 100/100/120/90 & 125/125.

[rsmith21]

Hi,
Are you sure its not an esc motor connection the IFLY4 ones work loose, they did on my Grandsons, do all you motors arm together ? or do they sick,
Naza, try to up gains, GPS 0 0 -10, 135 135 120 120 Will be more locked in and work from there, hope it helps
John

Thanks'; for your input too, between you and Simon I was convinced to look else where other than the gains settings 

[rsmith21]

Glad to have been able to help!

The default Naza settings as given in the manual are a very good starting point.  I can';t remember my exact settings but I think that they are something like 100/100/120/90 & 125/125.

Thanks Simon, I';ll keep the gains on the control knob for now and see what works best. I just have to wait for the rain to go and I can get out again, all bullets replaced by solder joints, the bullets got the bullet.

[rsmith21]

Thanks Simon, I';ll keep the gains on the control knob for now and see what works best. I just have to wait for the rain to go and I can get out again, all bullets replaced by solder joints, the bullets got the bullet.

Back from test flight.

I managed to prang it a few times using yaw at 120 so my yaw may have to be lower than most.

I';ve noticed that as I adjust the gain the pitch of the camera is also changing because I have set that way, but it lets me get an idea when I';m watching the video playback where the gains were.

Much more tuning to be done but I don';t have motors cutting on me now.

One more question, I have it sitting on the table, props off and arm it, I would have thought that all 4 motors would run up because its level, mine don';t. !!

UPDATE
Back from Flight test 2 and with the gains at these settings it behaves quite well, It didn';t crash this time, and no more motor cutting.
After finding faulty motor connections A test flight found these valus close.

Basic          Pitch   Roll   Yaw   Vertical
                  82%   82%   75%   83%
Alt Gain       50%   50%

I';ll put the remote adjust on the Alt gain next time and have another trim of that.