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Gaza07:
22 Aug 2019 22:47:32
Sorted mate  ~~
Andy7:
22 Aug 2019 10:27:36
Sure. But basically, all the subjects are getting cut off.
Gaza07:
21 Aug 2019 18:14:54
Can you pm me a screen shot of what you mean
Andy7:
21 Aug 2019 12:15:41
Gaza - can you make the subject line section in the forum topic list wider? It's cutting off the subject field really short.
Andy7:
19 Aug 2019 09:14:20
Good for you!  ~~
DarkButterfly:
18 Aug 2019 19:13:57
Had another negative encounter, it's been a few years since the last one, just an uneducated ******, going on about drones being illegal yada yada yada.    :-/
Still that didn't spoil my flying time, had an absolute blast  ~~
Gaza07:
07 Aug 2019 19:52:01
ooooh mrs jones  :D
hoverfly:
30 Jul 2019 15:26:34
D.B. you tightwad.. :cool:
atomiclama:
29 Jul 2019 20:14:10
DB that just means you have shed loads of props in the first place ;-)
DarkButterfly:
29 Jul 2019 18:53:33
Just had a thought, even with all the crashing I've done, I haven't bought any replacement props in over a year ~~
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Beginner's flight controllers thoughts

Started by Col_M, Tuesday,May 14, 2013, 12:39:00

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Col_M

In the last few days I';ve seen the Naza v2 videos and I';m struck by how much it does for you, from taking off itself and hovering in the same position far better than the old one used to.

I';m just a little concerned that as the hobby seems to be gaining popularity there could be a desire for some new flyers to get a controller that does everything and let it essentially fly for them. I can understand the desire to just get up and fly but I wonder if it isn';t creating people who can';t really fly without relying on the IMU to do all the work. I';d argue that though it may take a little longer to get in the air and flying around with a more basic controller, when you do master it the sense of achievement will be much greater and the skills you will have learnt will make you a far better pilot. The same way real pilots learn to fly on their own and using instruments before they fly a plane with autopilot.

Hopefully I';m not seen to be trolling or having a dig but when I';ve read threads all over the internet where people say they';re finding learning to fly hard and either they decide to or someone else recommends getting a naza I just feel like saying "Nooooooo, keep at it, yes it';s hard and frustrating at times but you';ll master it eventually and it';ll feel so good when you do"  :smiley:

I';ve got nothing against the naza or the other do everything controllers, in fact I want to get one myself but only when I know I can fly well and have all the basics down pat  ~~
TBS Discovery : DRQ-250 : Q450 : Blade mQX

nub

yup i agree, just like the guy down the road from me that';s learning how to fly a heli, i fitted a Align APS system on it for him, IMO it';s not going to do much good unless he flys without it on which he won';t do, progress for him is going to be very slow!

personally i hate the feel of self leveling systems, even on my KK2 board auto level feels horrible to fly, it may be more use for FPV but for anything else yuk i much prefer manual mode.
Point and click.

Monkey see, Monkey do.

DarrellW

I think you';re dead right - anyone who relies on the system to fly is going to come unstuck somewhere down the line when a situation arises that they don';t know how to cope with.
I';ve got an RCTimer 450 Flamewheel clone with Crius AIOP GPS etc. etc. built for me by Peter King (Ausi1972) and I';ve not really used it much apart from testing that it does what it is supposed to; I';ve been doing my learning to fly Multis with my Twister and having great fun learning because when you do come unstuck parts are dirt cheap to replace.
Some say use a simulator but I don';t and never have thought they are much good for anything other than learning orientation and when you can fly trick moves. With the sim nothing is at risk if you do a dumb thumb and if you';re not careful that idea can stick!
At the end of the day it boils down to what suits the individual - and we are all different aren';t we  ~~  ~~  ~~
I think..........I think I am........therefore I am.............I think!

Biffa

Sims have their place but there is no substitute for flying in real life and all the noise and fear that goes with it.

Over the years I have seen many people try to fly and think after watching a few videos on Youtube it must be easy and they will just be able to hoon around the sky. They rush out and buy a RTF helicopter and after watching it do the chicken dance decide it';s all too hard and flog it on.

I';m a fairly competent sporty flyer at best at it took ages to get to the point I am now and I have enjoyed almost all of that time, yet I still do stupid things and I am forever losing orientation and dumb thumbing everything I fly :rolleyes:

It';s fine having a multi that flys on it';s own, but I would rather have the skills learned over time to back it all up ~~
Steve

Hands0n

As an out and out beginner myself I tend to agree, but also think there is another point to consider.  That being the potential safety aspect of having an FC that could bail you out of trouble as and when it inevitably occurs.  I kind of long for that safety net as I spend time learning how to control the 450-frame with its KK2 FC. 

Twice now I have suffered catastrophic failure between brain and fingers, resulting in a very broken craft, the second time quite bad where it landed upside down and took out the KK2 also!  Would I have been quick witted enough to have hit Loiter or RTL when disaster struck? I really don';t know, but it would be nice to know it was there for when/if I need it.

Taking the OP';s point entirely, however. I totally agree that the only way to learn to fly these things is in the raw whenever possible. I am expecting to turn off the Auto Level on the KK2 on my next flight to see how it goes. But so far it has been quite an aid to me as I gain my confidence. I nearly lost it completely at "the big one" referred to above.  The serious thought of packing it in and selling the kit did occur to me - at least for all of a nano second  ::)

So what I';m suggesting is that, properly used in context, perhaps the highly intelligent FCs are beneficial to us complete rookies.  Not as training wheels, but as a safety net only.
--
Danny
"Its better than bad, its good"

Current FCs: Pixhawk, APM 2.6, Naza M V2, Naze32, Flip32+ CC3D, KK2.1.5
Aircraft: miniMax Hex, DJI 550 (clone) TBS Disco, 450 Firefly, 250 Pro, ZMR250, Hubsan X4, Bixler 2

Leigh

I first flew fixed wing models 25 years ago and gave up the hobby for 15 years until this year for various reasons.  I';m now flying a Bixler (fixed wing glider) and recently built myself a budget T-copter after seeing a few good videos on youtube.  I didn';t want to go to the extreme of a full flight controller with all the bells and whistles because, honestly, I can';t afford it right now.  So I got the kk2.0 board instead - a great budget choice.  However, I';m really glad I did go the simple route - flying without gyros would be nearly impossible for me to learn quickly and enjoy the experience.

I';ve seen very experienced plane pilots struggle to get the hang of heli flight and I didn';t want to go down that route - I';m very glad for the stabilisation and self level modes on the kk2.0 - I can go crazy with my movements and still have some form of safety net if I loose control (as long as I have a few mistakes of height).  I think anyone who is getting into multirotors should start with something as simple as a kk2.0 - regardless of how many props.  Once proficient at actually flying (with or without self level), then you can start to explore advanced FC features like RTH, loiter, gps mission plans, etc, and be able to control the aircraft if something goes wrong with the gps or buggy firmware or bad waypoint selection.

Just my £0.02 worth :)

Cheers

Leigh

PS - as an example of how well an absolute noob multirotor pilot can fly with something as simple as KK2.0 auto level on board, see my 4th, 5th and 6th flights ever from this evening:
Aussie on the loose in Belfast.

DarrellW

You should be pleased with yourself, doing pretty well I should say - nice field you got there, makes ours look a poor relation; lots of mowing to do there!!!
I think..........I think I am........therefore I am.............I think!

peter_a

Friday,May 31, 2013, 08:55:49 #7 Last Edit: Friday,May 31, 2013, 09:04:10 by peter_a
To me a multirotor is a plane , which in all sense it is , you know what they say "if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it must be a duck".

So if I have you right , when you all started to learn to fly and wanted your first plane you said "I don`t want a trainer with lots of wing dihedral ( automatic self leveling ) No , I want the fastest under wing unstable jet  , so how did that go for you ?.

We all need a little help at first and that`s what it`s all about.

Col_M

Hi Peter, I think there has been a misunderstanding, I';ve used self level a lot and it';s great help for a learner as you still have complete control and can easily stack your multi into the ground.

I was thinking the issue is more with the GPS based aids like altitude and position hold that essentially take all control away from the pilot who can carelessly point their roll/pitch control in any direction and the quad will go there and will stop, level itself and hold position if you take your hands off.
TBS Discovery : DRQ-250 : Q450 : Blade mQX

peter_a

Friday,May 31, 2013, 13:14:20 #9 Last Edit: Friday,May 31, 2013, 13:17:51 by peter_a
o.k , I can see your point about letting the GPS and flight controller do all the work .

But I did say :-
Quotewhen you all started to learn to fly

I don`t really consider fully automatic waypoint modes or loiter, you flying.

It`s o.k having your craft fully automatic , but you need a little skill to get it under control when things do go wrong !!!
I tried playing with simple mode the other day and I crashed it 10 times more than normal, because my brain does not handling the idea of simple mode very well now.
I do like having may craft with loiter to stay on one place to film etc , but can`t see the point of flying in loiter .
   

DarrellW

Quote from: peter_a on Friday,May 31, 2013, 13:14:20
o.k , I can see your point about letting the GPS and flight controller do all the work .

But I did say :- 
I don`t really consider fully automatic waypoint modes or loiter, you flying.

It`s o.k having your craft fully automatic , but you need a little skill to get it under control when things do go wrong !!!
I tried playing with simple mode the other day and I crashed it 10 times more than normal, because my brain does not handling the idea of simple mode very well now.
I do like having may craft with loiter to stay on one place to film etc , but can`t see the point of flying in loiter .


Yup, simple mode is a right pita when conventional mode is ingrained into your head - it just doesn';t do what you expect it to!
I think..........I think I am........therefore I am.............I think!

teslahed

Quote from: peter_a on Friday,May 31, 2013, 13:14:20 but can`t see the point of flying in loiter .


Some people use multirotors like you';d use a really tall tripod - for getting shots from altitude that you couldn';t get any other way. If your primary interest is photography then flying in loiter might make sense - but you';re really just using the multirotor as a high tech flying tripod.

If you actually enjoy the flying side of the hobby as well as the photography - flying in loiter is going to remove most of the fun. If you just want to get the shot from altitude then the DJI naza flying in loiter might be the easiest way to get results.
One circlip short of a quadcopter.
 1 lobe short of an antenna.

Leigh

Quote from: hart on Friday,May 31, 2013, 01:33:52
PS - as an example of how well an absolute noob multirotor pilot can fly with something as simple as KK2.0 auto level on board, see my 4th, 5th and 6th flights ever from this evening:



and sods law dictates: he who brags about his flights, shall have a whopper of a bad one next time.  Evidence:

Here: www.multi-rotor.co.uk/index.php?topic=2824.msg22468
Aussie on the loose in Belfast.

firey1

There was the same sort of discussions when the FLYMENTOR came out for rotory helis

All i can say is if it wasnt for electronics like there is today I would never have kept going the first heli i tried to fly lasted all of 2 mins and totalled it into the ground
next heli i fitted the flymentor and havent looked back
and when you gain the confidence you always want to try dialling down the auto features anyway

and no matter how good the electronics are or the pilot if you get it wrong you get it wrong 
MIKE

550 RC Spider quad for FPV
550 Alien quad (my sons now)
F450 quad
450 size bell 212, MD500,Augusta 109
600 size Huey running apm 2.5  3 planes  Taranis and 9xr  radios Skyzone FPV goggles

peter_a

Quoteand sods law dictates: he who brags about his flights, shall have a whopper of a bad one next time.


+1 on that

fruitsalad

Quote from: hart on Sunday,June 02, 2013, 21:53:22
and sods law dictates: he who brags about his flights, shall have a whopper of a bad one next time.  Evidence:

so so true  :rofl:
dont grow up,just buy bigger toys!!!!