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Only if the battery is fully charged, leak a few volts and it'll be fine.......
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3d - Printworx

Printing 3d Forum

Sketchy Maiden: Eachine Tyro109

Started by dp106, Friday,August 30, 2019, 16:40:23

Previous topic - Next topic

dp106

Well I finally got my Eachine 109 in the air today.  Been waiting for a replacement ESC after Banggood eventually agreed to send one.  Turns out it was just the connector cable so bonus I now have a spare  :smiley:

Maiden was successful... ish.  The quad was losing where level was so at one point it would hover fine but then it would start to drift off. Looking in the goggles you could see the artificial horizon was no longer where it should be.  Also started to have some random jitters which were off putting!  Not like oscilations where the pids were off, it would be fine then have a brief twitch.  Wondering if I now have a dodgy flight controller!

dp106

No one got any thoughts??

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dp106

Took it out again today but still having issues.

It keeps losing where level is but I got around this by switching to acro mode while flying. Landed in the end because of the weird twitching it does. Was bearable for a bit but when it performed a twitchy 360 rotation before I got control again it was time to land before I crashed.

All I can think is there is an issue with the flight controller. If it was one motor or a dodgy connection I wouldn't expect it to so something worse than a random yaw  movement?

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ched

Sorry if this is teaching you to suck eggs.
I assume you have calibrated the gyros etc?
Is fc soft mounted? Vibrations could be causing twitches.
Ensure all motors seem smooth when rotated, change props?
Any chance of BB logs?
Are you running airmode?
Is the idle set too high, too low?
All bolts tight, check all connections (esc, motors etc).
Does the FC show drift in BetaFlight on the bench?
I try :-)

dp106

Quote from: ched on Sunday,September 01, 2019, 18:47:39 Sorry if this is teaching you to suck eggs.
I'd rather you teach me to suck eggs than not tell me anything :)
Quote from: ched on Sunday,September 01, 2019, 18:47:39 I assume you have calibrated the gyros etc?
Yeah, after the first flight I went and calibrated it again
Quote from: ched on Sunday,September 01, 2019, 18:47:39 Is fc soft mounted? Vibrations could be causing twitches.
FC has rubber spacers on the stack. Maybe I've tightened it too tightly..
Quote from: ched on Sunday,September 01, 2019, 18:47:39 Ensure all motors seem smooth when rotated, change props?
Yeah checked them and they all seem smooth. Don't think props would cause sudden random yaw movements..?
Quote from: ched on Sunday,September 01, 2019, 18:47:39 Any chance of BB logs?
Sorry, not sure if I've got them or not!  I don't have an SD card on the board, will see if I can work out if I can get them off the controller
Quote from: ched on Sunday,September 01, 2019, 18:47:39 Are you running airmode?
Not permanently, I have it on a switch.  I can't remember for the life of me if I had it enabled at the time!
Quote from: ched on Sunday,September 01, 2019, 18:47:39 Is the idle set too high, too low?
I'm not running idle up, haven't changed the idle.
Quote from: ched on Sunday,September 01, 2019, 18:47:39 All bolts tight, check all connections (esc, motors etc).
Does the FC show drift in BetaFlight on the bench?
FC looked stable, no drift, while on the bench.

Thanks for the suggestions  ~~

ched

Reason I mentioned props was vibration. Random twitches could be some sort of throttle induced vibration.

If it's not drifting on the bench then it seems like it's an issue with vibrations.

In Angle / Horizon mode Accelerometer and gyro sensors are used but only gyro sensors are used in rate mode.
So if it's not having issues in rate mode then it could be the accelerometer?
I try :-)

dp106

Quote from: ched on Sunday,September 01, 2019, 20:17:43 Reason I mentioned props was vibration. Random twitches could be some sort of throttle induced vibration.

If it's not drifting on the bench then it seems like it's an issue with vibrations.

In Angle / Horizon mode Accelerometer and gyro sensors are used but only gyro sensors are used in rate mode.
So if it's not having issues in rate mode then it could be the accelerometer?
It's an issue in both modes, it doesn't drift in rate mode because its not trying to keep the quad level but the twitching was still an issue.  I thought at one point it would change when I added more throttle but it also occurred while I was in forward flight and had made no changes to throttle.

ched

OK so sounds like it could be gyro noise, that's all I can think of at moment.
I assume no cables jammed under FC or stack bypassing the vibration rubbers?
One weird thing I had a couple of years ago was one of the potentiometers was wearing out and used to give out iffy signals when it felt like it. This gave some very weird flight characteristics  :smiley:
Maybe recalibrate tx and rx.
I assume all esc are running same FW as you said you had a replacement? Not just same FW but same settings although I doubt that would effect things. Clutching at straws.
Which version of BF are you running as some had issues with version 4 and the D term being too high by default?

Change loops to 4K 4K, turn on dynamic filtering. Maybe change the D term low pass filter maybe up or down 10 units?   

Does the twitching happen on bench with NO PROPS when you throttle up via tx?
I try :-)

dp106

Quote from: ched on Sunday,September 01, 2019, 22:42:39 OK so sounds like it could be gyro noise, that's all I can think of at moment.
I assume no cables jammed under FC or stack bypassing the vibration rubbers?
One weird thing I had a couple of years ago was one of the potentiometers was wearing out and used to give out iffy signals when it felt like it. This gave some very weird flight characteristics  :smiley:
Maybe recalibrate tx and rx.
I assume all esc are running same FW as you said you had a replacement? Not just same FW but same settings although I doubt that would effect things. Clutching at straws.
Which version of BF are you running as some had issues with version 4 and the D term being too high by default?

Change loops to 4K 4K, turn on dynamic filtering. Maybe change the D term low pass filter maybe up or down 10 units?   

Well one thing I did notice is that I have the cable from the flight controller to the VTX feeding between the two, so this could possibly be the cause..?

Can't see a setting for loops?  Dynamic filtering is already on.

I will move the cable first and test that, thanks for your help and patience!

ched

Filters are on PID tab then there is a tab for filtering on the page. But try other things first and make a full cli dump first before playing with filter settings.
I try :-)

dp106

So I took the quad apart tonight to sort the wire that was potentially the source of vibration. While doing this I noticed the plugs on the fc and esc that are used to connect them look like they might well be touching.  I have put it back together and left it tight but loose enough that there is hopefully a thin gap there now. Hopefully will try and get out for a test in my lunch hour tomorrow...

dp106

Just tested it.. It's now worse than before I fixed it lol

Wondering if I've now not screwed the bolts on the stack tight enough. Have a spare flight controller so I may swap that tonight. At last I can hopefully rule out the fc if nothing else

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AmiSMB

I have taken a look at the spec of the Tyro109 and the problem will be the sensor used which is the ICM20602 and it is notorious for being very picky on how it is mounted. I remember that I mounted an FC, Matek F405-AIO, with this sensor on on one of my KC250 frames and on the maiden it freaked out. I ended up putting it on these damper mounts. This video shows the issue very well
Diatone GT R-349
Snapper 7
BoltRC Kraken 2206 2350kv
KC250 RS2205 2300kv SPF3 DAL 5 x 4.5 BN
EMAX MT2204 2300kv SPF3 DAL 5 x 4.5 BN
Gravity 250 DYS 1806 2300kv SPF3 DAL 5 x 4.5BN

Controlled by FrSky Taranis

dp106

Quote from: AmiSMB on Tuesday,September 03, 2019, 14:58:44 I have taken a look at the spec of the Tyro109 and the problem will be the sensor used which is the ICM20602 and it is notorious for being very picky on how it is mounted. I remember that I mounted an FC, Matek F405-AIO, with this sensor on on one of my KC250 frames and on the maiden it freaked out. I ended up putting it on these damper mounts. This video shows the issue very well
Interesting. I could be cursed then

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dp106

Flight controller replaced. There still looked to be minimal clearance between the flight controller and the esc on the bottom and for that matter the vtx on top. So I found some plastic washers and have added them as well as the rubber spacers.  definitely enough clearance now but getting everything back together with the cage on top was a bit of a squeeze!  Hopefully if I don't feel too crap tomorrow I'll give it another test

dp106

Well I think the main problem in the end was the flight controller. Had some good flights before I crashed and broke an arm. It was a hard crash but still a bit disappointed it broke.

Purchased a TBS Source One rather than wait a month for a replacement arm from China. This will hopefully give me a little more room as well as being more durable. I broke two of the motor tabs off the esc so as long as I can manage to solder the wires to what is left it will hopefully just be a case of swapping everything over.

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dp106

First good flights





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ched

Looks like it's flying well. Well done for sorting it.
That was a close shave early in first video!!!! :o
I try :-)

dp106

Quote from: ched on Tuesday,September 10, 2019, 16:02:51 Looks like it's flying well. Well done for sorting it.
That was a close shave early in first video!!!! :o
Yeah wasn't it just I saw him flash past the other way so thought I'd try and get some chase footage. But he turned around as well lol

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dp106

Oh FFS.  This budget build is turning into anything but a budget build. 

The crash at the weekend broke two of the motor soldering pads off the esc.  Now I know, I should have just replaced the 4 way esc there and then.  But I thought I'd try and save myself some time and resolder the motor wires where the tabs once were.  This was a big mistake and when put back together I released some of the magic smoke from the FC  :banghead:

It couldn't have just broken the esc which I have a spare of could it! Nope fried the one thing I don't have a spare. 

Now in the process of wiring up the Mamba F405 flight controller I bought to use in a second quad build.  Will try and test continuity on the ESC as best I can before connecting the FC!

ched

Sugar.
I am surprised the esc took out the fc. I thought the tyro109 had the power straight to the esc. I could understand it if there was a short on the esc if power went through the fc and it could pull too much current and blow a track.
Are you 100% that the fc is dead? I assume it's powered from esc? Could you unplug the esc from fc and try usb to see if fc is ok?
I try :-)

dp106

Quote from: ched on Wednesday,September 11, 2019, 13:29:26 Sugar.
I am surprised the esc took out the fc. I thought the tyro109 had the power straight to the esc. I could understand it if there was a short on the esc if power went through the fc and it could pull too much current and blow a track.
Are you 100% that the fc is dead? I assume it's powered from esc? Could you unplug the esc from fc and try usb to see if fc is ok?

Yeah I plugged it in to usb on the computer.  LED did not come on and the board started heating up very quickly.  I think I must have shorted something on the ESC and it sent too much through to the FC

ched

Quote from: dp106 on Wednesday,September 11, 2019, 13:34:54 Yeah I plugged it in to usb on the computer.  LED did not come on and the board started heating up very quickly.  I think I must have shorted something on the ESC and it sent too much through to the FC
Was that with the esc disconnected? reason being if the esc is dead and connected it could be pulling the usb down.
Shorting esc doesn't normally 'send' destroying signals to the FC but sometimes who knows.
Good you you have a spare otherwise you would be grounded.
Check the new FC on BF before any soldering! then check continuity before attaching power. 
I try :-)