It's all ched's fault....

[tipsy trucker]

I've got my ariel video/photograph quad more or less how I want it now but ched went and said I'd be getting a little multi-rotor for fun.... he sewed  the seeds as it were so I'm blaming him!😆

I'm not sure I want to go full racing quad/fpv  but small(ish) fast and just generally good fun without braking the bank.

I've got the radio gear but would need to get everything else. What would you suggest (keeping to a bit of a budget)?

[ched]

Sorry  ::)
If you want small have a look at a Mobula7 or the very new Trashcan (weird name) they are both brushless 'whoops' well 70mm across whoop style. They are both about £80. The Mobula7 can be flown on 1s battery or 2s so great for indoors or outdoors.
You can buy either with a compatible rx to match your transmitter.

Then you want goggles. These are 2 very cheap cheerful goggles that are about £65-75 https://goo.gl/Fqtb9a are convertible box goggles (convert between box goggles and screen) or https://goo.gl/kVFN4g these are similar in size to the FatShark type goggles but much cheaper. Neither of these goggles are great unless you look at them with respect to their price.
Don't get me wrong if I had the budget I would get FatShark HDO with a good module in but that would be over £500!!!!!

[tipsy trucker]

😆 so you should be lol

You wouldn't bother with build your own then?

[ched]

😆 so you should be lol

You wouldn't bother with build your own then?

It all depends on what you want. The 2 above are mainly for indoor flying. As the weather is so naff at the moment they are good fun and help your fingers get used to small movements on the tx.

By all means build one. Racing is so difficult it's untrue. General flying about and a bit of acrobatics is good fun.
So if you are thinking of general flying round then the next thing to decide is budget. There are some kits like the tyro99 https://goo.gl/qKpf29 is about £80 BUT it does need a better camera and the vtx isn't great.
There are also the Diatone GT M515 https://goo.gl/QZcFwL at about £150 or the M540 https://www.banggood.com/Diatone-2018-GT-M540-Normal-X-6S-FPV-Racing-Drone-PNP-F4-OSD-TBS-800mW-40A-3-6S-ESC-p-1349921.html?p=FU28156904672014077T&custlinkid=100283 at about £185.
Then you can build your own while that is great fun and a challenge choosing the components can be a challenge, less so that with the big one you built as in there are more motors the correct size but then there is also more choice!!!

So the above is just a few to look at but the Diatone ones you could use as a ref ie motor, esc sizes etc.

One thing to be aware of is that come Nov 2019 registration will be mandatory for anything over 250gms. So with your camera platform you will have to register so that probably doesn't matter but if you want to avoid registering then there are some decent ready to fly stuff kicking about or some good builds here in the build section. These days the sub 250gms stuff can still be very fast i.e. over 100mph!!!! Have a look at UAVFutures reviews for some fun stuff.

So lots for you to think about  ::) ::) ::) Sorry again 

[tipsy trucker]

  thanks again fella (even if it was all your fault  )

The Tyro99's come up on a special offer at just under £80 but would need batteries and a receiver (I imagine my flysky 10ch will be too bulky). The advert says it's 300g and that looks to be without battery, receiver and prop's - does that make it very heavy for it's size?

[ched]

thanks again fella (even if it was all your fault  )

The Tyro99's come up on a special offer at just under £80 but would need batteries and a receiver (I imagine my flysky 10ch will be too bulky). The advert says it's 300g and that looks to be without battery, receiver and prop's - does that make it very heavy for it's size?

The Tyro99 kit would need a rx, something like a x6b https://goo.gl/rdPLUJ, battery wise I found these good https://goo.gl/hsrbXN 1500mAh 4S with a '85c' rating.
As for weight, well a 1500mAh lipo is about 180-200gms so all in about 500gms isn't bad, it's no racer but it will be fairly quick, especially in comparison to your camera rig.

The Tyro99 is very much a budget quad so make sure you watch vids and understand that the camera isn't great and there is noise on video feed. Have a look at CurryKitten vids on youtube he has 2. First general review and the second where he puts a better cam in.

To get a little used to it and flying in Rate/acro I would strongly suggest a sim of some sort and use your tx. FPVFreerider (or the recharged version) has a free version but full version is less than £8. Velocidrone requires a bit more computing power but has lots more places to fly and better physics is a little more at about £18ish.
Even just the free version of FPVFreerider and a 1in7/12 tx usb adapter for your tx would give you an idea and help get your fingers used to the fine control needed. I have been flying in rate mode since about April and in the last 2 months I would say I average almost an hr on Velocidrone each day and my flying is still naff. I am almost 50 and I never really played games so my eye hand co ordination wan never great, but, for me it is hard work but rate mode really is the only way to fully control a quad.

[tipsy trucker]

A different question then; if I'm just looking to have fun, a bit of acro/freestyle without getting into full on racing or braking the bank; what's more suitable: 225mm or 120mm?

[ched]

A different question then; if I'm just looking to have fun, a bit of acro/freestyle without getting into full on racing or braking the bank; what's more suitable: 225mm or 120mm?

OK a couple of points. Learning you will crash a lot!!! The heaver a quad the more momentum it carries when it crashes so in theory a 120mm quad will survive crashes better. That does depend on them both being reasonable builds. A 120mm will have smaller batteries and these are usually cheaper, so £ per min flight time might be better  ::) Then the flip side, a 120mm isn't going to be able to carry a gopro type (HD) camera (well unless you build it with a Run Cam split mini). Plus I believe that for some acrobatic moves you need a bit of momentum to carry the quad through the move, so a 220 might be better.
There really isn't a one size fits all.
I have just received a Mobula7 (75mm mainly indoor quad) and a Lizard 105S (105mm very much outdoor with 720p dvr built in). I haven't flown the lizard yet as I am a not keen on the cold weather. I have conformal coated (waterproof coating for electronics) the lizard so I wont be as worried to fly/crash over wet grass. Batteries were only £7 (500mAh 4S on offer). So hopefully I will get a bit more practice in with that plus its way under the 250gms limit come November  Plus I have my Martian3 (220mm) which has been great even though it was built with budget components. I have changed FC and VTX for better ones now. It's on the build thread but the components are always getting better.

There are lots of quads about and the ready built stuff can be hard to beat value wise. Have a look at AndyRC, CurryKitten, Albert Kim, UAVFutures, Josh Bardwell and Nick Burns on youtube for some ideas. That said they are all good pilots!!!

[tipsy trucker]

Cheers mate 

I think the price of batteries settled it for me.... I was literally about to pres the expensive button but thought I'd check in on here first.

I've gone for a HGLRC hornet and several 3s 850mah batteries (I need to double check they'll not dwarf it though).

I didn't manage to get a flight sim working the other day but I'll carry on trying and hopefully have a bit more of an idea by the time everything arrives 

[ched]

I think the 3s 850 might be a bit big. Something more like 450mAh to 550mAh might be better. Loos like it gets good reviews.
Keep trying with the sim, the little hornet will be quick!!!!

[tipsy trucker]

It certainly looks good fun 🙂 any idea if you can get away with a phone/vr headset to get started with the fpv? (I'm already using my phone for the video monitor for the big quad)

[ched]

The thing to think about is what is called latency. The difference between what actually happens and when you see it on your screen/goggles. Smaller faster quads need as little latency as possible.
If you are using youe phone with something like https://goo.gl/jHkSmz Eachine ROTG02 then you could test it by just waving your hand in front of the camera on your photo rig and seeing how close in sync it is on your phone.
Oscar Laing has some good info here: https://oscarliang.com/fpv-goggles-review-fatshark-skyzone/

For real budget look at these box goggles that convert into a monitorhttps://goo.gl/GGbJMp for less than £40, or the cheapest fatshark style at about £75 https://goo.gl/8mPwwB after that ev200d or Aomway Commander V1 at a little over £200.

So first check latency in what you are using then decide what your budget is.
I started with the huge Quanum V2 box goggles but they were massive and just too big. I bought some ev100 and for the money £75 they are great. It's so easy to lift them up onto my forehead and walk over to pick up the quad when I crash  walk back to take off position pop goggles back down and away I go again.

[tipsy trucker]

Thankyou, I'll see what latency is like but I think I'll be starting off with the mk1 eyeball so I can relate what I'm doing to what the quad does.

It's on its way, as are three 550mah batteries, it even comes with a compatible rx so you've "only" cost me £135..... only joking fella, I'm really excited about my new toy, I think a party pack of props may be wise for a start too and a few hours on the simulator if I can get it to work. I just need the Chinese to pull their finger out now! The dog's already been told to keep the postman in check.......

[ched]

mk1 eyeball aka Line Of Sight (LOS).
Sounds like you are going to have Fun  ::).
Hrs on the sim will be very beneficial. You are using a FRsky tx aren't you? If so I think you just need a usb cable to plug in. On FPVFreerider I think there is a guide to setting up a taranis which should help. If not I am sure you will find a youtube vid on sims and tx setup.

[ched]

Just a thought. Are your new batteries xt60 or xt30? Either way I assume you ordered the ones to fit the Hornet? Does your charger have an adapter to fit the new batteries?

You can make xt60 to xt30 charge adapters quite easily if you need to or buy them on BG, eBay or Amazon.

Just thought I would mention it as it would be so frustrating to have to wait for adapters to charge!!!!

[tipsy trucker]

I appreciate it, thankyou. The quad and batteries are all xt30 but I do need to double check the charger has an adaptor (It's got a lot but I'm not 100% sure) I may just buy a few pairs anyway, always handy to have some to hand and I might want to make a parallel adapter to charge several at once, get them nearly charged and finish them off on the balance charger to speed things up a little bit.

I finally got the simulator working so that's a good start, do people often start with what I'll call "fpv sickness"? It's good fun but makes me feel ill; kind of the opposite to motion sickness I guess - I can see the movement but not feel it as opposed to motion sickness sufferers who feel worst when they can feel the movement but not see it 😕 if it doesn't pass, this may be a short lived venture unfortunately

[ched]

If your batteries are within about 0.1v then you can parallel charge them in balance mode!!!! As I can't fly that often when I get back I charge my packs to storage voltage (3.85v per cell). Then when I get a chance to fly I connect upto 6 packs on my balance board and balance charge them. That way I can have 6 packs ready in under an hr. Obviously don't charge batteries unattended and check your voltages before parallel charging.

As for 'fpv sickness' well I do know some people initially suffer from feeling sick. In fact some people can't fly outdoors without sitting down or they get sick.
I believe that you will get used to it and wont feel sick for long.

As for the sim, well done, once the sick feeling stops, you should be able to get some good practice in. There is a good tutorial on youtube from Josh Bardwell using FPVFreerider taking you from start to doing flips and rolls etc.

[tipsy trucker]

You're right on both counts; I had a good couple of hours on fpvfreerider today and no ill effects at all, I'd also found Josh bardwell's videos and they've made a world of difference; I feel like I'm starting to get a feel for it rather than feeling it's almost impossible

[ched]

Well done. My hands are not good at control, no idea why as I worked with my hands most of my life.
Anyway great that you are not feeling sick and Josh vids are helping. Just to scare you FPVFReerider the free version is set on the slowest movements possible. If you get the paid version £8 ish then you can set 'snappy' rates and the quad becomes a lot more sensitive to control. But the way you are doing it now is best to start with.

There are ways to tame your 120 down when you first get it. Josh and CurryKitten  both have vids on reducing throttle, they were written for Mobula7 but should work on any quad.

[tipsy trucker]

I've got the paid version but I'll leave it alone for quite a while yet.... I'm well aware that I've got a long way to go

I've also got 12 pairs of props on their way and 10 pairs of xt30's

Out of interest is acro the same as naza's manual? I've absolutely no intention of trying to fly the big quad in manual (that sounds expensive!), just curious.

[ched]

I believe Naza manual is same as rate/acro mode. I would be very wary of flying a camera ship in manual. I think Atti mode gives you greater angles so you have more power to counteract wind but no real need for acro on camera ship.  Acro is for tight maneuvers, flips, rolls etc. It enables you to have much finer control. It is difficult at first but you will get the hang of it. Once you do you will see why it's best control mode for small agile quads  ::)

Have Fun.

[tipsy trucker]

The next question is goggles; I don't want to spend a fortune as it's more or less a bit of fun. I've been looking at reviews etc, I really like the ev100 you mentioned and it's at the upper end of what I'd want to spend but one review has stopped me going ahead and buying them; apparently the field of view is a bit small - just wondered what your thoughts are?

[ched]

I have had big box goggles and the ev100 and while the box goggles give a big view they are just too bulky for me.
I have a case which fits mt i6 tx, my ev100 goggles, 8 x 1500mAh 4S lipos, spare props, and a few odds and sods and my quad straps on the outside. So it's all stored together and I can just grab 1 bag and go to the field. So I love their size.

I use the ev100 with my Mobula7 to fly round the house. So field of view wise if I can fly round the house then flying outdoors is no problem. If you really get into fpv then you may want to upgrade in the future but for general flying they are great.

One slight issue I do have with the reviews is that many of them forget they are comparing a £75 pair of goggles to FatSharks at 3 times the price at a minimum.
Yes they are a smaller field of view than the fatsharks but they are perfectly flyable.

I would say get the white ones as the black ones can get a bit warm in the sun!!

I also bought the little add on  ev100 dvr at about £9. Then I can record the footage and replay it if I crash and can't find the quad. Hopefully the recording can give me an idea where it crashed. The only thing it is missing is a way to know via the goggles that it is recording. It just shows a flashing red light on the dvr itself.

The antennas are just dipoles which are not great but the one on your new quad is a dipole as well so you will be fine. If you need better reception for long range then you can change them. Battery wise the included one lasts about an hr between charges with fan running and dvr.

I have never tried fatsharks so a direct comparison is difficult but I haven't seen any other goggles at the price of the ev100 that are anywhere near as good.

Forgot to say, the ev100 also has a focus mechanism in I think it's 0 to -4 prescription. I normally wear glasses and find that adjusting the focus to close to -4 is perfect focus for me. Fatsharks etc you either have to have prescription lenses made or chose -2, -4, -6  inserts.

[tipsy trucker]

Thankyou very much that's just what I was hoping for, especially either "flyable" or not

[tipsy trucker]

They're on the way.... but 19 days "processing" which I think means it'll be 19days ish before they're posted so I'll be getting a bit of los in whether I like it or not.

The Sims going quite well, I can fly (just about) but precision even at low speeds feels quite a long way off at the moment

[ched]

Sounds like they are waiting for stock. Usually they are fairly reliable date wise.
LOS is a good skill to have, I can't fly in rate mode los so have horizon on my mode switch for emergencies 
Flying slow sometimes is actually more difficult! This is because the more pitch you have the more roll actually turns the quad. So the more pitch you have the less yaw actually turns you round a corner and the more roll turns you with a bit of pitch back. If you were to actually fly with 90 degree pitch the all your turning round a corner would be roll!!!  That probably sounds weird but hold your quad (NO BATTERY REQUIRED) at a high pitch angle and see what effect yaw and roll have.

Flying in rate mode is difficult. I found that eventually it sort of clicks and becomes instinctive. Precision is very difficult I am getting there but trying to fly a specific path with tight turns is tricky.
I have recently found that changing my rates helped me quite a lot. This was in velocidrone which uses Betaflight rates and pid system. I think I have short thumbs so getting the sticks on my tx to full movements is tricky. So I effectively made the centre of the sticks quite liner with the ends higher so max of 800deg/sec. This seems to have helped my fingers.
FPVFreerider has a much simpler system of rates but it might be worth having a quick play with different rates like snappy etc just to see if 1 helps our fingers.

[tipsy trucker]

You use betaflight don't you ched?

The quad hasn't arrived yet but I've got 4 days off (typical hey) so I could spare a few minutes to set the tx up as much as I can for now to save a bit of time when it arrives.

Do you know what channels are what as default? I saw something online about each channel going from 1000 - 2000 instead of -1000 to +1000 on the taranis, I can sort that. What about arming? I have a spring loaded momentary that I've set up a mix for arming the naza but I gather betaflight is more of an on/off affair?

[ched]

Yes normally Betaflight.
The range is a tricky one for me as I don't have a Taranis. I am sure there are lots of great setup vids on youtube from say josh bardwell, painless360, andyrc currykitten to name but a few.

As for arming I just use a 2 position switch that is very close to my fingers. So when I crash it can be clicked fast to stop props. In fact a long time ago, twice I actually disarmed because I lost orientation, just so the quad came down quick and didn't try and escape :-) This was LOS flying  ::)

[ched]

Just spotted this https://oscarliang.com/reduce-power-throttle-taranis-betaflight/ that might be worth considering.
Basically it allows you to put a throttle limit on your quad. So for starting out with a new fast quad it might be worth taming the throttle with a potentiometer (knob).

[tipsy trucker]

Thanks mate, as it happens I managed to figure it out quite easily....

Then the yodel girl turned up with the quad!

Then I got everything set up.....

And then....

I found Los with a little quad that may as well have a warp drive is virtually impossible!

Thankfully it's pretty tough!

You don't know of anywhere in the UK that can match £77 for the ev100's do you?