User Info

 
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

MultiRotorUK ShoutBox

Refresh History
  • VaNDAL_UK: ANyone FPV onver Sutton Park Birmingham?
    December 07, 2018, 12:54:30
  • steveo9007: Cheers Atom was just a thought for now as I plan on keeping it well in range until I get comfortable with controls and flying
    December 05, 2018, 21:01:25
  • atomiclama: steveo You can just plug a GPS puck into the FC and get the OSB to display the coords, record the VTX and when things go tits up you have the last known posistion. Whislt not accurate it is a good starting point. Or get the coords sent back by telemetry to you TX which will be more accurate as long as power is maintained to the quad and it is range with the TX. Just some thoughts.
    December 04, 2018, 12:27:26
  • steveo9007: Is there a post on here about the 433mhz telem tx ??
    December 04, 2018, 07:56:49
  • steveo9007: ok thanks shaw
    December 03, 2018, 20:31:44
  • shawdreamer: meanwhile the 433mhz telem option I mentioned gives you live fixes in realtime and not "delayed texts"..... plus it doesnt cost you credit everytime you request a gps fix (btw the tags sim card also needs to have credit on it :laugh:)
    December 02, 2018, 20:47:10
  • shawdreamer: and yes that does actually work..... I tried it for a laugh a couple of years ago ::)
    December 02, 2018, 20:45:09
  • shawdreamer: the tags do as you say use satellites to get positional fixes but they dont immediately report those fixes to an App, each tag requires a Sim card (same as your phone) which is used to "text" you the tags position..... in other words you could get the exact same effect by strapping a old smartphone to your frame with the google "where is my device" app installed
    December 02, 2018, 20:44:13
  • steveo9007: doesnt the tag communicate with the satellites and not via a data system, isn't it the user who owns the tag go via data to the app that can locate the tag ???
    December 02, 2018, 18:18:11
  • shawdreamer: plus, alot of the lower end trackers struggle with GPRS and often rely heavily on GSM data instead which is just not worth a sh1te when it comes to pinpointing a downed frame
    December 02, 2018, 16:23:30
  • shawdreamer: most readily available gps trackers are not really suitable for anything smaller than a 400 sized frame as the units themselves are often too bulky for anything smaller and larger frames often already have their own gps setups that can simply be outfitted with a 433mhz telem tx that would report live and accurate info direct to a ground station so there'd be no point in a sms type tracker
    December 02, 2018, 16:22:07
  • steveo9007: anybody fitted a GPS tracker tag to their drones if it gets lost and is need to find it
    December 02, 2018, 14:56:36
  • Gav: yeah too much of a hike for me too.  was tempted with the bike show the other week but TBH its not worth it - no bargains anymore and rip off parking
    November 29, 2018, 20:11:21
  • Bad Raven: Too far for me.
    November 29, 2018, 08:27:36
  • hoverfly: Sunday drone show , N.E.C.  anybody   going.??
    November 28, 2018, 18:36:04
  • Bajadre: Congrats DB brother  !!!
    November 25, 2018, 03:09:56
  • hoverfly: I wish i haden't eaten a whole ham and egg pie........ pass the Rennies.. :cry
    November 21, 2018, 17:23:37
  • ched999uk: Don't yo just hate those days where you wish you never got up!!!!!!
    November 21, 2018, 15:46:06
  • Reman: Isn't it a spooky coincidense how seconds before banggood have a sale nearly all the prices of the on sale items go up, But the discount drops the price back to the pre sale prices?
    November 21, 2018, 05:46:29
  • DarkButterfly: Certainly hard work but well worth it ::)
    November 19, 2018, 22:19:02

Who's Online

Theme Selection



Forum Default

Permanently

Author Topic: Whoover (UK) - Tiny Whoov (US)  (Read 249 times)

Offline Bad Raven

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1621
  • Liked: 642
  • Country: gb
Whoover (UK) - Tiny Whoov (US)
« on: November 24, 2018, 19:06:41 »
Original Idea by Alex of Badassdrones in the USA.

The plans for a foam sheet build are on Thingiverse, as are a lot of 3D print variants.

Having built LOADS now, and racing them every week at least twice a week, I do have a little experience to offer.

1. Avoid 3D printed ones (weight, even the super lightweights are too heavy)
2. Drone Junkie (Jem) sells coloured foam kit sets for under £7. Buying two gives alternate two colour schemes!
3. THE best quad to cannibilise is the Eachine E010 or its identical apart from colours JJRC H36. This can be down WITHOUT soldering, against all the YouTurd "how to" videos I have seen!

The JJRC H36 is more easily UK sourced off EBay, and I have just bought four at £8.99 each, this including transmitter and delivery!!  The JJRC comes in grey and blue, the Eachine in red and green. "Quad kids" don't want the "dull" silver/ grey, but its ideal to not clash with foam colours and is often cheaper as its not bought as much!

4. Extra power is worthless, do NOT go there, all the hover then does is drift too much, forcing early shut off for corners, and what you might gain in acceleration (with a huge track required as the weight counts against it) you lose slowing down/drifting wide.

5. I have worked with the designer of a computerised lap timing system and we have come up with a 0.4g transponder that is happy on 1S down to quad LVC. More on this later, but talk to Keith at Kamtec.

6. I fit a 3D printed battery cage that also takes the 260mAh 1S from the E011/E010 as well as the std 150mAh. These 260mAh packs have been in short supply but the std 150mAh allows three minute races for finals and two minute heats so is quite OK. This cage also holds the FC board up to allow the low battery lights to be seen.

SO, Drone Junkie for Foam set, MCPX connector for std batteries and MCPX fitted stick batteries. Jem also sells a PTFE bottom plate which can be fast fit/remove and allows use over carpet, though solid floors are best.

You know you are winning when a large group of 12-17 year olds have been unable to break one!!

Pictures and more video (there is one in the "what did the postman" thread for now) will follow if there is sufficient interest. One of our group built a race proven one from a foam under frozen pizza tray.

The transmitter can be modded to make it work like a car two stick, and the sticks can be easily extended for finer control.



I can demo at Beckenham, SE London, Biggin Hill, Kent, and probably at Portslade, Sussex if required.


Offline trebor

  • Old boy
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 706
  • Liked: 130
  • Country: england
Re: Whoover (UK) - Tiny Whoov (US)
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2018, 20:33:34 »
I just happen to have a spare E010  ::) Every other week we can get into a 3 court indoor hall and these would just fit the bill  for a good time.  ~~
I fly one of these quads using a Taranis with the iRangeX module but havent sorted the headless mode out yet. Will it power these Hovercraft ok on normal power setting ?

Offline Bad Raven

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1621
  • Liked: 642
  • Country: gb
Re: Whoover (UK) - Tiny Whoov (US)
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2018, 21:15:40 »
You don't want headless mode!

The only difference from a quad is that its best to transfer yaw onto roll so Mode 2 left stick is throttle, right stick is steering.

Quick way to remove the bits.

Gently remove the props with a removing tool or wide screwdriver.
Gently pull back the frame hook that routes the wiring and release the wires.
Press on the motor end caps carefully away from the wires and move the motors down to clear the end motor retaining loop
Cut the loops off (NOT the wires!!)
Remove and retain the two FC board screws
Ease the motors back out the now open end
Remove the FC board, easing the motor wiring and motors angled through the frame

You now have a still wired electronics set ready for the Whoover.

Take the frame and produce four ducts without cable hooks, separated and cleaned up. Leave the rear motor extensions on two to go into the 3D printed motor pylons if doing a Drone Junkie build.

I'll put up some photos tomorrow.

Offline trebor

  • Old boy
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 706
  • Liked: 130
  • Country: england
Re: Whoover (UK) - Tiny Whoov (US)
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2018, 23:30:37 »
When you fit the Slip pad do you leave it on for all floor surfaces ?

Offline Bad Raven

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1621
  • Liked: 642
  • Country: gb
Re: Whoover (UK) - Tiny Whoov (US)
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2018, 06:13:55 »
When you fit the Slip pad do you leave it on for all floor surfaces ?

The first fit I taped on with 15mm reinforced tape, half on the pad, half the whoover foam.

I used it for a while and then built another for that location built orange/black with black lower skirt and the pad taped on with black electrical tape.

However, the sports hall where these two get the most use usually has a floor that is not the cleanest, in fact its often filthy brown gritty dust. This gets inside the slip pad crevices and looks nasty. (We get a super unrepeatable hire deal way below usual rate so can't complain).

So, I took one and now it had been shaped for a while (after over folding it anyway during fitting) it stayed fitted with nothing, but the edges caught on track edging, so I fitted it, taped it closely with cut down width electrical tape, so its now not actually held to the Whoover foam and so is quick fit and remove for cleaning. It does not move or fall off.

Do I remove it for use? Well no, but that's because I have loads to choose between. On really smooth surfaces it can part suction down and give "stiction", though most of the time the difference is tiny.

I suggest you experiment on the surfaces you run on.


Offline Bad Raven

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1621
  • Liked: 642
  • Country: gb
Re: Whoover (UK) - Tiny Whoov (US)
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2018, 07:59:25 »
OK, here we go pictures time.............

First, the current collection I handle/own (loads more now owned by school club boys or flying buddies)

<br /><br />

Most have bog std 6mm motor E010/H36 gear, two have Nano QX gear, one of these has extreme motors.  The ones without camera have transponders fitted in the camera location. Cameras can be substituted and or y lead connected with a transponder. You will see some are 3D printed.

One is E011 based with larger 7mm motors, a blind alley!

Offline Bad Raven

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1621
  • Liked: 642
  • Country: gb
Re: Whoover (UK) - Tiny Whoov (US)
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2018, 08:11:27 »
OK, now some pictures of what has evolved as the standard LOS/FPV Whoover, using Drone Junkie foams.

<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />


<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

Offline Bad Raven

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1621
  • Liked: 642
  • Country: gb
Re: Whoover (UK) - Tiny Whoov (US)
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2018, 08:14:20 »
Comparison of the std transponder and the micro I helped develop, only 0.4g and fully 1S usable.<br /><br />

Offline Bad Raven

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1621
  • Liked: 642
  • Country: gb
Re: Whoover (UK) - Tiny Whoov (US)
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2018, 08:31:38 »
And pics of a Nano QX gear one. This was a pain due the rotation directions, etc, note the crossed over rear motor wiring.


<br /><br /><br /><br />

Going to stop now, if you have any specific need for pics of the 3D print ones, but for example, the lightweight low profile green one has several faults:-

1)  its still heavy,esp against the plan built Depron ones.
2) its rear props overhang the sides, so sliding into track edging (we use square drainpipe for cars, so use that) jams the prop needed to extract it and risks the prop and motor, and adding ducts obscures the lift props.
3) Exposed props are less safe around juniors!
4) its very fast, and too easily overshoots when drifting corners

The transparent yellow/red 3D print one with white ducts is the E011 based one, and while it does not have 2 and 3 issues above, it suffers even more with 1 and 4. By LOTS of tuning I have got it reasonable, using all sorts of tweaks like offset "pitch" to force the nose down, but trust me, its a blind alley and as the original video shows, an E010 running FPV is QUITE fast enough!!

Offline Bad Raven

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1621
  • Liked: 642
  • Country: gb
Re: Whoover (UK) - Tiny Whoov (US)
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2018, 08:57:19 »
Links to a couple of (nothing special) videos, but which will give an impression of how quick a std E010 Whoover seems and the reactions needed when using FPV with the camera only mm's off the deck!

Turn sound off or add your own music, I suggest the William Tell Overture (also known as the Lone Ranger Theme), like this          ;) :laugh:!!

Picture videos................





Both these were taken when the main "hardcore" were absent on a trip, and I had mostly first timers or near new to R.C. boys present, so I set the simplest wide track oval for them. The video in the other thread is a more complex track, basically a triangle with narrower width and a ring obstruction. At the moment all school racing is LOS, but I think several are getting FPV gear to add for Christmas!

The "bridge" has the receivers for the race control system underslung from it. The system counts each transponder, giving overall, best and average lap times, controls practice into heats and heats into finals to match abilities, giving audible start, finish and speech announced results.

Lap Counting hardware, etc from Keith of KAMTEC.


« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 09:18:49 by Bad Raven »

Offline Bad Raven

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1621
  • Liked: 642
  • Country: gb
Re: Whoover (UK) - Tiny Whoov (US)
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2018, 10:17:56 »
Now to transmitters.

I have a Horus with multi-module that runs WJT (E010 and H36) and Bayang (E011) protocols. But that is way overkill!

The std Transmitter in Mode 2 has throttle and "rudder" (steering) on the left stick, less than ideal, so I internally modify so that the right stick is steering. This involves cutting tracks, removing one Potentiometer, and adding straps.

I also extend the sticks (as I do with the Quads) to make them less aggressive for better control. I show below two ways, on the left 3D printed stick extensions (removable) and on the right using nylon frame spacers.

<br /><br />

EDIT - The protocol is "bind every time, model on first", so when in a group, you have to be a little organised or one Tx may be working many or all. I don't know what the limit is but have had ten operating together well. With the boys I only put out the number of Tx for a heat's number and that limits this possible issue!

« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 10:33:15 by Bad Raven »

Offline trebor

  • Old boy
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 706
  • Liked: 130
  • Country: england
Re: Whoover (UK) - Tiny Whoov (US)
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2018, 19:47:49 »
I have a few bits n pieces on order now  ~~ I already have a spare Tx camera combo which never got used that will do the job.

Offline Bad Raven

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1621
  • Liked: 642
  • Country: gb
Re: Whoover (UK) - Tiny Whoov (US)
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2018, 06:30:10 »
 ~~

OK, Transmitter Mods in principle.

If Mode 2, the quad gives the Whoover left stick throttle and left stick steering (yaw). Obviously this is less than ideal, but works reasonably well since a lot of the time you are flat out throttle anyway (using a curve or limit as required, some use a max 40% throttle curve on FPV!!!) throwing it sideways (and there is the skill!!) into corners before you get there to slow and reposition.

So, the change is to move the rudder/yaw signal so it picks up its variable resistance from the aileron/roll potentiometer.

Steps would be (DO NOT DO ANYTHING TILL YOU HAVE READ ALL OF THE BELOW!!!!!!):-

1. You will be removing the rudder pot. Get a thin screwdriver or knife blade between pot and cage and lever it away from the gimbal cage at the top. Desolder the three connections and remove. Remove the brass rudder/yaw actuator from the gimbal, by moving the stick and then it you can extract it and remove it intact.

2. There are (at least) TWO types of cct board with differing layouts. One is marked Rev2. This is NOT age related in the sense that even if you buy NOW, it might come as either. You will need to make different wiring/track changes depending on the version. What you need to do is to remove connections to the aileron/roll pot, and wire across to the rudder/yaw pot tracks. Exactly what you do depends on version of PCB. Rev2 is easier, as the tracks to the rudder/yaw pot on rev 1 pass ON to the throttle, so you have to patch to throttle, also the steering will be reversed so the supply wires (outer two) may require reversal to steer the right way.  Sounds bad, quite easily done.

Descriptions do not work alone here, so if you want to do this mod I will need to open up one of each type and take pics.

I have done one for every Whoover, and that is lots! I have yet to have this mod fail, but it's your risk.

The alternatives are run the supplied Tx one stick, or use a Multi-Module from a FrSky Tx running OpenTX, or use a very cheap multi module and set the Tx sticks on start up to the right position to bind that make.

The 6mm motor E010/JJRC H36 settings in OpenTX are  Internal OFF, External set to :-

MULT   MJXQ    E010

Ch 1-16

And "bind on power up" on.


Should you be using the 7mm motor E011 (and remember I don't recommend it), the settings are:-


Internal OFF, External set to :-

MULT   Bayang   Bayang

Ch 1-16

And "bind on power up" on.

Yes, although they look identical apart from motor size, they are made by differing suppliers for Eachine and have differing 2.4GHz protocols!!    ;)

More (much!) later IF there is sufficient demand to make it worthwhile.





Offline trebor

  • Old boy
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 706
  • Liked: 130
  • Country: england
Re: Whoover (UK) - Tiny Whoov (US)
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2018, 16:02:31 »
Done a bit, extended some of the wires done a bit of glueing :smiley: I got some green motor mounts but they dont match my props  :cry  didnt realise there was some in the kit so I went all black  :cool: Might try and use the old battery cage  :hmm:

Offline trebor

  • Old boy
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 706
  • Liked: 130
  • Country: england
Re: Whoover (UK) - Tiny Whoov (US)
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2018, 15:16:58 »
I had this running last weekend he only problem I had was the tracking on the power in points on the FC came off  :huh I did find some more connection points though  :sweating:





It ran ok but the motor spindles are prone to pick up any crap on the floor, this gym hall we go to must be kept clean with a dayglow yellow mop type broom as the fibres were all over the floor then they build up behind the props till the motors stopped spinning up  :cry Didnt take long to clean off though, I hope to get others interested so I can have a race  ::)