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Author Topic: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....  (Read 1188 times)

Offline tipsy trucker

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2018, 14:41:53 »
gone with 6000mah 4s (one at a time obviously).

Yeeeah.... I'm way over budget, dont tell the other half! (past £400 and still going  :o )

I think, touch wood, just one last thing to sort;

Leds on the arms ... but I'd also like a stupidly bright led and buzzer that I can activate with the remote "if I'm having a bad day"

Any suggestions of what to get and where from?

Offline ched999uk

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2018, 18:01:44 »
That's quite a big battery.
As for LEDs I bought 4 different coloured strips of 5050 12v type leds. I put white on front, red on rear, gReen on Right and bLue on Left. That way you can see which way it is pointing once it gets over about 50m away if flying line of sight (LOS). Orientation is always difficult but LEDs make it easier.
For a buzzer I used think I used a pwm buzzer that is directly connected to my 10ch receiver.

Hope that helps.

Offline Lamaule

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2018, 09:48:15 »
I'd agree with ched, you might want to go with something a little lighter.  6000mah will not give you better flight time and will likely badly impact the flight characteristics and efficiency.

If you are able to cancel the order and return it you might consider a lighter pack. 4s and anything up to 4500mah should be fine and will give you a better tune and handling.  If you go beyond that the weight of the quad increases but flight time will not.

There are websites that you can research that have calculators for prop size, motor kv, battery size and weight and relative flight time. Ecalc used to be the standard: https://www.ecalc.ch/xcoptercalc_mobile.php


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Offline tipsy trucker

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2018, 13:11:55 »
Sadly not, they're in the post - but ecalc's saying 15.5 min's so I'm ok with that, I'll just have to replace them if I need to. As it happens, everything else staying the same but 4500mah and 100g lighter comes out at 12 min's (the 4500 are just under 100g lighter according to the adverts.

Offline tipsy trucker

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2018, 20:24:58 »
Everything's coming together nicely, I think

If I remember right, I've plugged the receiver's i-bus into x3 on the naza and motors 1-4 in m1-m4 and the two for the gimbal into m5&m6 does that sound right?

I have a nighthawk q6 and tx for it and receiver that plugs into my phone, that's all working as it should. Sadly, I can't try the rest of it as I don't have a battery, charger, motors or prop's.

Once it's all together, I think I'll be needing a lot of help setting everything up... pretty please 😕

Offline ched999uk

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2018, 20:44:53 »
I think the rx (receiver) plugs into X2.
I think the Gimbal is F2 for pitch F1 for roll.
I used a 10ch rx, the FlySky iA10B ppm receiver. I connected 5 channels to the Naza (AETRU) and then 2 channels to the gimbal controller. All using seperate 3 pin servo connectors.

While you wait have a good read of the Naza manual.

Also install the Naza assistant and then you should be able to connect the naza to your pc and see the config. Always best to take a note of all settings or a backup BEFORE you change anything. That way you can always go back to how it was setup at the beginning.

When you are ready to setup just ask. Remember to check every connection is correct (polarity etc) before you apply power!!!! If you have a multimeter test for shorts before powering up or have a search for 'smoke stopper' as this can avoid damaging things if there is an incorrect connection.

Offline tipsy trucker

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2018, 21:25:58 »
Ahhh, now there's a conundrum.....

Offline tipsy trucker

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2018, 21:32:27 »
The gimbal came from China with no instructions but has it's own control board. A brief Google found people arguing the same question - should it be plugged into naza's controller or connected as a pair of servos (and, presumably it sorts itself out but can be tilted/rolled from the ground too)?

Offline tipsy trucker

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2018, 13:15:13 »
Well, it's all a bit two steps forward - one step back at the moment but I'm very close to getting airborne

The radio stuff's all programmed, naza all set up, gimbal works but is a bit temperamental, camera, vtx, osd and vrx all good but I've had an issue with it tipping over on takeoff - one motor not spinning as fast as the rest. A replacement esc didn't solve this and neither did re-calibrating all of the esc's. I have a replacement motor on it's way though so hopefully that'll be the problem solved.

I'll keep you posted

Offline Lamaule

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #39 on: September 19, 2018, 14:27:14 »
Well, it's all a bit two steps forward - one step back at the moment but I'm very close to getting airborne

The radio stuff's all programmed, naza all set up, gimbal works but is a bit temperamental, camera, vtx, osd and vrx all good but I've had an issue with it tipping over on takeoff - one motor not spinning as fast as the rest. A replacement esc didn't solve this and neither did re-calibrating all of the esc's. I have a replacement motor on it's way though so hopefully that'll be the problem solved.

I'll keep you posted
I'd recommend that you do the first flight without the gimbal and camera just incase the worst happens!

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Offline ched999uk

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #40 on: September 19, 2018, 14:59:36 »
As stated first flight will be big learning curve and test. So just fly with minimal stuff on.

If you have a suspect motor/esc then if you swap a motor with another from different arm. If the issue moves its motor if it stays its esc.

Gimbal are 'fun' make sure when camera fitted it sits level and is balanced.

Make sure you calibrate naza and do the 'naza dance' to set up compass. Make 100% sure you have a good satellite lock before takeoff as a failsafe could trigger a return to take off point which, without a lock could be in China!
Take a note of the led codes with you as they you can check correct code before takeoff.
If I remember correctly naza won't take off till 50% throttle and once in the air should hold position at 50% throttle in gps mode.

Good luck and take it slowly.

Offline tipsy trucker

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #41 on: September 19, 2018, 18:21:01 »
Yeah, intended to leave the camera etc off to start with but it's been something to potter with while waiting for the post.

I've swapped the connections on the naza to prove it was either the motor or esc on a particular arm, then replaced the cheaper part first and sadly didn't cure the problem - the motor hesitates but then looks ok but speeding up just results in the other three lifting and tipping the whole lot over....... and bits of shattered prop flying dangerously in all directions.

Like the flash sequence idea ched, thankyou

Offline ched999uk

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #42 on: September 19, 2018, 18:45:50 »
I've swapped the connections on the naza to prove it was either the motor or esc on a particular arm, then replaced the cheaper part first and sadly didn't cure the problem - the motor hesitates but then looks ok but speeding up just results in the other three lifting and tipping the whole lot over....... and bits of shattered prop flying dangerously in all directions.
Just swapping the control outputs on Naza wont tell you anything apart from the Naza is working correctly or not.

I can't remember the Naza Assistant software very well as I haven't used it in a year. But here goes.
Can you spin up 1 motor at a time within the assistant (PROPS OFF)? If so double check the correct motor spins when it should, I think there is a picture saying which motor position corresponds to which motor number. It's quite easy to get the wires from Naza to esc in the wrong socket, so double check them even if you think they are correct.
Again double check motors all rotating in correct direction (PROPS OFF) sometimes a bit of tape stuck on motor helps to see which way it's spinning.
Double check prop rotation is correct for each motor and they are on right way up!!!

Re calibrate escs as I have known the calibration to be 'off' and a second one fixes it, almost like the FC 'forgot' to save the cal data!!!

Good luck and let us know how you get on.


Offline tipsy trucker

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #43 on: September 19, 2018, 20:13:08 »
I recalibrated the esc's to no avail and naza assistant seems to just send a pulse (just one) to whichever motor you want. To my way of thinking (correct me if I'm wrong); if motor 3 is behaving strange but the rest are ok. I swap the esc plugs 3&4 yet it's still 3 that has issues - that narrows it down to wiring, esc and motor on that particular arm. I'm confident with the wiring and I've replaced the esc, recalibrated all 4 and still have the same issue so that more or less leaves just the motor doesn't it?  All motors and prop's checked for direction so can't be that unfortunately.

Offline ched999uk

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #44 on: September 19, 2018, 22:15:09 »
To my way of thinking (correct me if I'm wrong); if motor 3 is behaving strange but the rest are ok. I swap the esc plugs 3&4 yet it's still 3 that has issues - that narrows it down to wiring, esc and motor on that particular arm. I'm confident with the wiring and I've replaced the esc, recalibrated all 4 and still have the same issue so that more or less leaves just the motor doesn't it?
Sounds correct to me.
To carry on swap motor 3 and 4. If the problem follows motor that is the issue. If fault stays on arm3 it's esc. OK so it's not a perfect test as it does not test cabling or FC but it helps to narrow things down.

Good Luck

Offline tipsy trucker

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #45 on: September 21, 2018, 21:49:03 »
I finally made it home! (I'm away all week with work)

So, new motor fitted, I didn't calibrate the esc but armed the motors several times and no hesitation at all  :smiley: Obviously, I cant try it any more than that indoors but it looks more hopeful

fingers crossed for at least a bit of calm weather over the weekend  :huh 

Thanks for all the help so far fellas  ~~

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #46 on: September 22, 2018, 16:48:56 »
Airbourne!! Only for a second or two as I had a bit of finishing off to do but I'm hoping the wind will die down this evening so I can have a proper maiden flight.

Weighed the whole setup including gimbal and camera and we were pretty close with 1.8kgs all up its 1798g - any closer and it'd look like we knew what we were doing 😄

More importantly, everything appears to work as intended. I may add some nylock nuts to the propellers just to be sure (the cw & ccw adapters never turned up).

Offline ched999uk

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #47 on: September 22, 2018, 19:12:15 »
Well done mate. Congratulations. Now we just need a couple of picys of your new aircraft  ::)
It's always good to see how others do things.

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #48 on: September 22, 2018, 22:15:46 »
Well done mate. Congratulations. Now we just need a couple of picys of your new aircraft  ::)
It's always good to see how others do things.


Thankyou  :beer2:

I will do................. once the repairs are done  :banghead:

You see, it seemed to me that I couldn't do the voltage calibration until I've seen what low and charged look like a few times. I decided to monitor it and not push my luck  :hmm: made sense to me


So WHY OH WHY did I just have that "last couple of minutes" !?


Everything was perfect apart from maybe unbalanced prop's, beautiful flight - not very fast but that's ok. It's much easier to handle than my cheapo Chinese quads were.

BUT, from a good 100m it fell like a brick when the battery died and £28 of parts are ordered to repair the two broken arms, prop's and motors (the wires were pulled out and it doesn't look like I can get at them to repair)  :(  the lipo's outside in a steel bin as it ended up slightly bent (better safe than sorry) I gently straightened it so if nothing bad happens over night I'll charge it and return it to the bin for the rest of the week before thinking it's safe. Hopefully the impact hasn't harmed anything else.

What a numpty  :-/

Offline ched999uk

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #49 on: September 22, 2018, 23:40:03 »
Oops.
Just had a quick check of my batt usage history and have the following info that might give you a a starting point.
Type   no load    loss       loaded
1st     11.00       0.6        10.40
2nd    10.40       0.6        9.80

I think the Naza Assistant has 2 levels of batt alarms. Level 1 & Level 2. Above is 3 cell voltage under no load and the drop under load. The 0.6v is the difference MY batteries have between loaded and rested, yours might be different!!  So my alarms are set to 10.4 and 9.8.

It's over a year since I looked at the Assistant so the above is just from my notes that may or may not help you as a starting point for your voltage alarms.

Basically 3.70v per cell so 3C= 11.10v is about 20% capacity left. You shouldn't take lipos below 20% charge remaining if you want them to last long!!! This voltage is the rested voltage, so about 15 mins after a use.

If you have the OSD setup to put the flight battery voltage on to your pictures so you can see live batt voltage on goggles/screen.
I think there is a hack somewhere that you can get the Flysky x6b rx to transmit flight batt back to your tx. I am right in thinking you are using Flysky? If you have the i6 tx you can upgrade the Firmware to do flight battery alarms which is very handy.

Fingers crossed you will get it back together again soon. Good job you didn't have the camera and gimbal on it!!!!

Offline tipsy trucker

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #50 on: September 23, 2018, 00:07:14 »
That's as good a starting point as I've seen ched, thankyou

In a way, if I'd had the video bits on I may have avoided the mistake - I'd have had the osd to tell me what voltage I was at (assuming it was working and I saw it in time)

Thankfully the parts are relatively inexpensive, £2.30 per arm and about £12 per motor but it was a pretty quick way to spoil a day; watching the hard work plummet out of the sky. I'd been thinking it'd land itself if I went too far - I only realised what I'd done afterwards.

At least it didn't land in a lake or on top of someone's car though

Offline Lamaule

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #51 on: September 23, 2018, 10:32:08 »
Really sorry to hear about your incident.

While your learning just fly with one of these on your lipo balance lead. It'll beep when it's time to land:

https://www.banggood.com/2PCS-7_4V-11_1V-2S-3S-RC-Lipo-Battery-low-voltage-Alarm-Indicator-p-1049138.html?gmcCountry=GB&currency=GBP&createTmp=1&cur_warehouse=CN&utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=cpc_ods&utm_content=heath&utm_campaign=pla-banggood-gb&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpqbO0-TQ3QIVS7DtCh2MHwHpEAQYBiABEgJnCPD_BwE

At least then you'll have a fall back voltage alarm while you learn how to set the voltage calibration correctly. There are other options with double buzzers and voltage displays that you might also consider.

You should also think about setting a timer on your transmitter too.  Even an arbitrary timer will give you a reminder and stop you getting carried away. Lipos roll off quickly at the bottom of the charge and it's always good to land with a little spare capacity.

A final point: the will likely be more incidents like this as you learn. Ensure you choose your flying sites carefully to ensure you are away from people and property. Also there are other risks you have not yet encountered, wind, loss of orientation, failsafe... You should really consider limiting your early flights while you test yourself and your systems are operable- failsafe being the big one.

There is lots to learn at this point and this is the most risky point in your your learning curve, so think about managing the risks to yourself, your gear and others appropriately. I'm sure you will have other technical issues like this - so be prepared.

Hope your spares come through quickly and I hope your next flight ends better.





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Offline tipsy trucker

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #52 on: September 23, 2018, 12:09:22 »
Thanks again for the advice  ~~

I had most of those bases covered thankfully, I was flying on a friend's farm so miles away from anything breakable (apart from mu own car which would be about my luck  :angry:).


So, what I've learned this morning;

The lipo that spent the night outdoors was at 14v when I plugged it into the charger so must've dropped below that while flying. It's now charging at 0.5A in the hope there's no harm done.

I HAD set the voltage failsafe thing in the assistant, I remembered doing it when I saw the numbers. HOWEVER Naza thought the battery had 19.7V when actually it had 16.6V so that must explain the lack of warning. Somehow, I'd missed that step. At least I've straightened that out now, I think ordering a beeper may be a very sensible thing to do too  ~~

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #53 on: September 23, 2018, 13:48:01 »
It's good when you can find what went wrong and correct it for next flights.
14v is only 3.5v per cell which isn't good at all. Hopefully it will recover.
On my Martian 3 220mm I normally fly down to 14.6v (lightly loaded, like gentle forward flight) and when rested they come back to about 14.92v which works out at about 80% capacity used.
Setting a timer to say 5min is a good starting point as then you can land and check voltage to work out a more accurate time.

Offline tipsy trucker

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #54 on: October 07, 2018, 13:28:47 »
Post's really becoming something of a sore point at the moment  :banghead:

Long story short, I ordered all the parts to repair the very same day of my mishap (just over two weeks ago). Nothing came until the end of last week but I've managed to get the bulk back together. Two motors seem to have vanished between Manchester (which, it seems, is now in China  :blink )  and Lincoln. And a new vtx and main battery sensor are taking forever to get anywhere from BG, despite paying for express post.

So, I've ordered yet another motor, this time definitely from the uk and done everything else that I can. Wires all as tidy as I can, battery alarm fitted. Re-done the leds on the arms and moved a couple of bits around to help with keeping everything tidy. I've also balanced the propellers, hopefully that'll help a lot and also re-thought how the gimbal was mounted.

I only need the motor really before I can fly again but the little battery sensor thing will be a massive advantage (https://www.banggood.com/Flysky-FS-CVT01-Voltage-Collection-Module-For-iA6B-iA10-Receiver-p-976303.html?rmmds=search).

Photos as soon as the new motor turns up  :crossfingers:

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #55 on: October 07, 2018, 16:18:47 »
It is always frustrating ordering anything from China but even more so when you are just waiting for a few bits to get back in the air.
I have the same voltage sensor on the ia10rx and it works fine. On mine it's about 0.2v out but as long as you know check your and make a note of any difference you will be fine.
I think the updated Firmware allows flight battery sensor calibration. I think it only works on the i6 tx not the i6X. The Updated FW also allows you to set flight battery alarms on the tx.

Have a look in the menus on your tx as there might be an alarm that can be set to beep on low flight battery. Not sure what it might be called as you might have to have the sensor installed to see the options.

Anyway good luck and let us know how you get on.

Offline tipsy trucker

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #56 on: October 07, 2018, 18:25:47 »
Thankyou

That's a good point, I'll see if I can find it in the menus  ~~

Edit; seems you can't do that without the sensor being available. Anyone know if updating the firmware is likely to remove all the settings I've done?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 18:43:33 by tipsy trucker »

Offline ched999uk

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #57 on: October 07, 2018, 19:32:18 »
The Firmware Upgrade was, I think, ONLY for the i6 NOT the i6X. The i6 originally came out as just a 6 channel tx but some very clever people managed to get the FW (or reverse engineer it, I can't remember) and modify it to allow more features.
So unless you are 100% sure I wouldn't upgrade the Firmware.

Just wait till sensor arrives.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 20:25:58 by ched999uk »

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Re: Another beginner asking the world of you guys....
« Reply #58 on: October 07, 2018, 19:40:30 »
Ahhh, I just spent all that time trying to find it and came to very much the same conclusion. I'll be ok without though I think - worst case; I'll have wasted £3+p&p but I'll still have the osd, buzzer and naza's failsafes so hopefully won't be watching any more super fast descents any time soon  :whistling: