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Author Topic: WHICH? 3D Printer  (Read 22422 times)

Offline trebor

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #120 on: March 04, 2018, 14:21:35 »
There's not much info on the soft touch control as it's just being introduced. Its on the Tronxy x5s and x5sa printers, I've looked at Deltas, bit big for me, Ctc types but I fancy this box extrusion type, you can do lots to it.

Offline Bad Raven

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #121 on: March 04, 2018, 15:53:50 »
I'm still currently running my little HK Fabrikator II Mini.  I bought it while it was on one of HK's "OMG, were overstocked and the b*ggers are not buying any" sales, a very hefty discount it does not have now.

It worked well straight off but after a dozen or so prints a flanged gear wheel threw off the flange. As HK support seemed in the middle of hibernating through an Ice Age I stripped it out, superglued it back, and its been OK ever since. I did eventually get sent some gears but by that time I'd decided my repair was OK.

While I didn't have any obvious bed levelling issues, I certainly had issues with bed adhesion, which did not seem to be levelling related, at least not solely. This intermittently was quite frustrating.

Eventually the penny dropped and I realised that the small amount of expelled filament between the head starting to move and the head getting across and down to the start point was not helping, and not being able to stop it happening I used to use a paperknife blade to wipe it away just before it got too low to access.

This worked, and more recently it seems to have stopped doing that, not that I have altered anything.

Its got quite reliable (famous last words), but if anything, bed adhesion is now too great and removing the print is sometimes quite tricky!!   :rolleyes:

The only mod I have done is to replace the reel holder with a 3D print one that allows the slightly larger ESun reels to avoid jamming on the feeder block.

I'm using HK, ESun, and Polymaker reels, all PLA, with no effect on changing between.

I'm going to be buying new again in the next couple of months, at least 250x250x250 this time, and multi material capable.

It's SO difficult to see wood for trees on what's "best", and at the moment I'm tending towards the Original Prusa i3 in the latest Mk3 form.


Offline shawdreamer

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #122 on: March 04, 2018, 16:56:01 »
hmmmm to be honest the more I look at that MK3 the less I can actually see the point, or for that matter the justification for calling it "the mk3".

by my eye, even on the most fundamental scale its just a standard "MK2" with a few of the mods people thought up and perfected slapped on it, there's very little if not anything NEW about it (except maybe a higher price tag)

personally Id just stay with a Mk2 clone and add the mods you want yourself, you can pick up a cr10 for half the asking price of a mk3 and still have money left over if you then paid out for high quality add-ons.

With a little experience under your belt you could even build a printer to match the mk3 from scratch for a fraction of the cost, my PolturXL can run a 300x300 heatbed (using a silicone heatpad it puts any alu heatbed to shame too), I recently converted the bed to a magnetic setup too, It can run just about any extruder I care to chuck at it, from dual to diamond head, Its ran every filiment Ive used (from PLA to PETG 190c-260c), the list could be endless but If I totted it all up on cost to build (including mods I tried and discarded) Id say Ive spent about 300 notes getting it to were it is now. :hmm:
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Offline trebor

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #123 on: March 04, 2018, 17:00:33 »
That mk3 looks nice, just watched a video on its auto checking program. Would be a good buy for a novice like me but it's near £700, it's got good support and plenty of videos to watch and learn.

Offline Gaza07

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #124 on: March 04, 2018, 19:20:17 »
The Anycubic Kossel Plus isnt bad for the money I bought the older version and it printed pretty well after I built it, they supply every thing you need to start printing with out spending any more cash, It even now comes with an auto level sensor  ~~

Offline nate80

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #125 on: March 04, 2018, 23:04:11 »
hmmmm to be honest the more I look at that MK3 the less I can actually see the point, or for that matter the justification for calling it "the mk3".

by my eye, even on the most fundamental scale its just a standard "MK2" with a few of the mods people thought up and perfected slapped on it, there's very little if not anything NEW about it (except maybe a higher price tag)

personally Id just stay with a Mk2 clone and add the mods you want yourself, you can pick up a cr10 for half the asking price of a mk3 and still have money left over if you then paid out for high quality add-ons.

With a little experience under your belt you could even build a printer to match the mk3 from scratch for a fraction of the cost, my PolturXL can run a 300x300 heatbed (using a silicone heatpad it puts any alu heatbed to shame too), I recently converted the bed to a magnetic setup too, It can run just about any extruder I care to chuck at it, from dual to diamond head, Its ran every filiment Ive used (from PLA to PETG 190c-260c), the list could be endless but If I totted it all up on cost to build (including mods I tried and discarded) Id say Ive spent about 300 notes getting it to were it is now. :hmm:

The mk3's a pretty big step up from anything that's gone before it. It's genuinely the most advanced 3d printer available on the hobby market right now. It's a completely new design compared to the mk2S and it's the first time you can't fully upgrade a previous model to the newest version via an upgrade kit.

The mk3 has a new box mount frame that highlights how outdated the mk2's frame has become. The onboard sensors (that actually work) are phenomenal and almost a must for serious makers and commercial print farms. For most people there's no way they could build a 3d printer from scratch that rivals the mk3. And it wouldn't come with the renowned support or access to off the shelf parts and free specific firmware updates. From everything I've watched and read it's quite simply the cheapest, best equipped and most reliable 3d printer on the planet.  ~~

I'll hopefully be able to confirm all this when my mk3 arrives later in the month or early April.  :crossfingers:
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 23:08:53 by nate80 »

Offline trebor

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #126 on: March 04, 2018, 23:12:44 »
Where are you getting it from ?

Offline nate80

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #127 on: March 04, 2018, 23:33:28 »
I bought direct from Joseph Prusa Research.  They've got a 4-6 week backlog at the moment (better than the 2-3 month backlog that was in place after it launched last November) but they're printing and building kits and pre-assembled machines to order as quickly as they can.

I emailed them a question and they got back to me within 3 days with an answer, and they've supplied me with a couple emails already with info about the machine and a new firmware that's just been made available (guessing my machine may already have it installed when it arrives).

Offline Bad Raven

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #128 on: March 05, 2018, 06:32:42 »
I would be buying it direct.

Know of build times, no problem.  I'll soldier on with my little Fabrikator!

My research has seemed to show that Prusa have a noticeably more pro-active approach to customers than many of the other makers, who seem not to bother with such frippery.

The "this is a developed product" approach rather than "been there, but this is all new" is attractive to little old engineer me.

I draw the similarity with MMW and other motor/etc suppliers. MMW isn't the cheapest, but Benedikt is very active in customer service and that has a value.

Offline trebor

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #129 on: March 05, 2018, 09:13:56 »
I suppose there's no chance of it going through customs, so far I've not paid any duty yet but this box will be too big for them to resist 😢

Offline nate80

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #130 on: March 05, 2018, 13:22:03 »
I suppose there's no chance of it going through customs, so far I've not paid any duty yet but this box will be too big for them to resist 😢

Which 3d printer you referring to trebor? FYI, the Prusa i3 Mk3 comes from the factory in Prague so, if you're Scotland based, there's no customs to pay.

Offline trebor

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #131 on: March 05, 2018, 13:27:29 »
I was looking at a Tronxy x5s on Bangood.

Offline Doug

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #132 on: March 05, 2018, 14:08:06 »
I was looking at a Tronxy x5s on Bangood.

Look at the CR10 range much better build Quality than the Tronxy  Having seen some of the prints that a friend in the states produces they are pretty awesome foe the money.

   you can tell the scale and hence the detail by comparing to the Gluesticks

Offline nate80

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #133 on: March 05, 2018, 15:21:57 »
+1. The Crealty CR-10S is the printer I'd have bought if I'd not decided to go down the official prusa route. It's got a huge build volume for the money (and can go even bigger for more ££) and it gets rave reviews for ease of use and great print quality. There's a ton of modifications available for it too. As long as your ok with tinkering and figuring things out yourself it looks like a great machine.

Offline nate80

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #134 on: March 05, 2018, 15:26:37 »
Look at the CR10 range much better build Quality than the Tronxy  Having seen some of the prints that a friend in the states produces they are pretty awesome foe the money.

   you can tell the scale and hence the detail by comparing to the Gluesticks

BTW, Doug. That's one HUGE glue stick!  :rofl:   ;)

Offline Doug

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #135 on: March 06, 2018, 07:33:41 »
those prints were on a unmodified CR10 as far as I know and they are quite small the guy is a 3d artist doing stuff for the Film and games industries I believe his usual stuff is D&D Type figures

Offline trebor

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #136 on: March 06, 2018, 12:37:58 »
While I've been looking I see mentioned that most printers work with filaments at 1.7mm but work out twice as expensive than 3mm, so is it possible to upgrade extruder and heat head thingamijigs or is 3mm filament just for industrial stuff ?

Offline nate80

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #137 on: March 06, 2018, 13:17:57 »
As far as I'm aware the difference is marginal and plenty of people are migrating from 1.75 to 3mm due to the cost savings.  The extruders stepper motor has to work a little harder with 3mm and slippage is slightly more likely (though not a problem if everything calibrated properly).  Most 3mm setups are Bowden style.  1.75m is a little easier to find and buy.  I don't really know of any other significant differences or issues.

Offline Doug

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #138 on: March 06, 2018, 14:45:29 »
Be careful going to 3mm filament.  it stems from the very early days when there was no real filament as such and people used to uses trimmer plastic. 3mm is becoming less popular and I suspect that is why it is reducing in cost cos everyone is trying to get rid of stocks they hold I can see it disappearing almost totally in the not to distant future although there will alway be a requirement for it for those who print very large stuff and then it will be at a premium.

Also consider that you need much more powerful extruders to be able to push that size of filament thru what is effectively a tiny hole.

Offline nate80

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #139 on: March 06, 2018, 16:20:58 »
I've not heard that before.  Guess we'll have to wait and see if 3mm (actually 2.85mm, I think?) dies any sort of death as I've read plenty of discussions and reports of people jumping the 1.75mm ship for 3mm over the past year or so.  The reason was mostly cost, which hasn't changed relative to 1.75mm prices for some time afaik.  I understand the cost difference between 1.75mm and 3mm is vast in some areas of the world too, so that can make a big difference to the products longevity.

It'll be interesting to see if all those loyal to 3mm will be forced to swap over in the near future.  Personally, I'm not so sure.  3mm requires more effort on behalf of the stepper motor but it also feeds slower.  With the right nozzle it can obviously output far denser filament runs so can produce suitable models far quicker than 1.75mm, so that's another huge benefit.

Personally I'll be sticking with 1.75mm as it answers all my needs ok, but if I were looking to print large models and big runs frequently, and if money was a concern (the more you print the more the cost matters) I'd seriously consider 3mm.

Offline Bad Raven

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #140 on: March 07, 2018, 18:17:31 »
Be careful going to 3mm filament.  it stems from the very early days when there was no real filament as such and people used to uses trimmer plastic. 3mm is becoming less popular and I suspect that is why it is reducing in cost cos everyone is trying to get rid of stocks they hold I can see it disappearing almost totally in the not to distant future although there will alway be a requirement for it for those who print very large stuff and then it will be at a premium.

Also consider that you need much more powerful extruders to be able to push that size of filament thru what is effectively a tiny hole.

MMMM, interesting.

Have just been searching to buy PLA 1.75 and found TONS of 3mm on sale but little 1.75 available. HobbyKing as just one example, loads of 3mm in PLA, ABS, etc.

Offline shawdreamer

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #141 on: March 07, 2018, 18:51:25 »
there's another factor to take into account if considering using 3mm, its doesnt like being pushed through any extruder lower than 0.4mm, even with a strong motor behind it the stock heater found in most printers just cant keep up with the sheer volume of filament that has to be melted fast enough to pass through the extruder smoothly, from personal experience I found the average extruder temp for 1.75mm abs was notably lower than 3mm as I had to increase temps to give the 3mm abs a better chance of hitting its ideal melt point before trying to pass through the tip.

Even with the increased temp and stronger stepper I struggled to get consistency on any print using a 0.3mm tip, It did improve when I swapped it out for a 0.4mm tip but the big downside imho was the loss of print quality and accuracy in small parts, larger prints did see a print time reduction but the quality loss alone made the time saved unjustifiable.

for the sake of saving yourself a couple of quid a roll I honestly cant recommend using 3mm at all, 1.75 is just better supported in general and produces much more consistent results, thats all just based on my own experience though so feel free to give it a bash if all your doing is mid-sized/large prints that dont really need high detailing. :shrug:
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Offline trebor

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #142 on: March 07, 2018, 19:20:13 »
Well I am still looking at the Tronxy x5sa and the Anycubic linear plus delta, both have heated beds although the Tronxy needs a 24v upgrade to get higher than 60c. Brain hurts  :banghead: 

Offline shawdreamer

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #143 on: March 07, 2018, 20:29:04 »
just run the HB off a separate 24v/variable PSU through a expansion board.

.... hold on

stock setup only does 60c?, wtf is the point of that????
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Offline trebor

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #144 on: March 07, 2018, 21:41:28 »
Looks like without insulating under the heated plate it won't go any higher and it takes forever to heat up.

Offline shawdreamer

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #145 on: March 08, 2018, 06:44:57 »
In that case just put a silicone heatpad under the build bed and not even bother wiring the stock bed,  even the BG 12v 200x200 I use can make my build deck hit 130c in about 20mins
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Offline trebor

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #146 on: March 08, 2018, 07:22:55 »
I’ve seen a few people use old cut down mirror glass for replacing warped heat beds. I can’t make my mind up which one to go for. Are deltas supposed to be less accurate and better for speedier prints ?

Offline nate80

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #147 on: March 08, 2018, 08:39:48 »
MMMM, interesting.

Have just been searching to buy PLA 1.75 and found TONS of 3mm on sale but little 1.75 available. HobbyKing as just one example, loads of 3mm in PLA, ABS, etc.

Hobbyking have been out of stock of 1.75mm pla for ages. I've been waiting for a restock for a couple months now. I think their shortage is to do with economics. Hobbyking's stuff is super cheap compared to the majority of other retailers (who have recently been edging prices upward). I believe they can't get it from their suppliers because their suppliers are selling it to the competition for more money. There's also a slight shortage in global plastic production at the moment.

1.75mm machines are most popular so filament for those will have sold out first. Hobbyking and other suppliers may not be getting supplies of 3mm right now either but their stock levels could be high enough to outlast through drought.

Offline trebor

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #148 on: March 08, 2018, 08:48:28 »
I know nothing about plastics but maybe it's a good time to get into plastic recycling as nobody wants the waste. I've seen a 3D print pen that runs on plastic bottles whilst goooogling around.

Offline nate80

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Re: WHICH? 3D Printer
« Reply #149 on: March 08, 2018, 10:57:33 »
I've spent a little time looking into the potential of recycling old PLA prints. It'd be great to be able to turn old models or waste back into usable PLA filament. Unfortunately, for hobby users, the technology just isn't there yet and whilst it's possible to purchase equipment that can grind and re-form filament it's slow and very costly, so I'll be sticking with wincing every time I throw wastage in the bin for the time being.   :-/

For anyone who hasn't already had the chance to mosey on over, this kind of subject is perfect for the 'sister' website btw: www.printing-3d.co.uk