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Andy7:
22 Aug 2019 10:27:36
Sure. But basically, all the subjects are getting cut off.
Gaza07:
21 Aug 2019 18:14:54
Can you pm me a screen shot of what you mean
Andy7:
21 Aug 2019 12:15:41
Gaza - can you make the subject line section in the forum topic list wider? It's cutting off the subject field really short.
Andy7:
19 Aug 2019 09:14:20
Good for you!  ~~
DarkButterfly:
18 Aug 2019 19:13:57
Had another negative encounter, it's been a few years since the last one, just an uneducated ******, going on about drones being illegal yada yada yada.    :-/
Still that didn't spoil my flying time, had an absolute blast  ~~
Gaza07:
07 Aug 2019 19:52:01
ooooh mrs jones  :D
hoverfly:
30 Jul 2019 15:26:34
D.B. you tightwad.. :cool:
atomiclama:
29 Jul 2019 20:14:10
DB that just means you have shed loads of props in the first place ;-)
DarkButterfly:
29 Jul 2019 18:53:33
Just had a thought, even with all the crashing I've done, I haven't bought any replacement props in over a year ~~
ched:
09 Jul 2019 19:45:42
May the sun shine and winds be light for BFU#8. Son't forget lots of vids for those of us unable to attend.  :D
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Two questions from a newbie

Started by Joker88, Thursday,February 21, 2013, 20:39:47

Previous topic - Next topic

Joker88

Hy,
I am  new in this forum. If you are searching, you will get many questions answered, but there are two more questions left for building up my first quad. I crave your forbearance if the answers to my questions are anywhere in the deepts of the forum. :notworthy:

1. Issue: Is it a problem(or inefficient) when the motor i have chosen only needs an ESC providing 20A and I choose a ESC providing 30A?

2. Issue: I will use NTM Prop Drive Series 28-26A 1200kv from hobbyking, at the discription there is only one prob mentioned at a voltage of 14,8V : 8x4E - 14.8v - 222W - 15A. Does it mean, that this prob is the only one i should choose?

fyi:
My list ::) :
Motor: NTM Prop Drive Series 28-26A 1200kv
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__25084__NTM_Prop_Drive_Series_28_26A_1200kv_250w_short_shaft_version_.html
Prob holder:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__16719__NTM_Prop_Drive_28_Series_Accessory_Pack.html
ESC: Turnigy Multistar 30 Amp
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__25365__Turnigy_Multistar_30_Amp_Multi_rotor_Brushless_ESC_2_4S.html
Battery: Turnigy nano-tech 3300mah 4S
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__11924__Turnigy_nano_tech_3300mah_4S_25_50C_Lipo_Pack.html
Frame: Talon V2_0
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__22781__Turnigy_Talon_Quadcopter_V2_0_Carbon_Fiber_Frame_550mm.html
UBEC:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__16663__HobbyKing_HKU5_5V_5A_UBEC.html
Radio:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__8992__Turnigy_9X_9Ch_Transmitter_w_Module_8ch_Receiver_Mode_2_v2_Firmware_.html
Controler:
AIOP V2.0 ALL IN ONE PRO Flight Controller (RCtimer)
Sensor:
RCTimer Voltage & Current Sensor 90A (suit MultiWii, APM, etc) (RCtimer)

Have i forgotten something?

I would be very pleased if someone would say some words to my list :smiley: .
I am sorry for my grammar, my english isnt as good as i wish it would be.

SimonS

Thursday,February 21, 2013, 20:51:38 #1 Last Edit: Thursday,February 21, 2013, 21:03:08 by SimonS
First point, Those NTM motors have their bolt holes at 16mm and 19mm which is fairly standard for most motors. The frame that you have chosen however has pre drilled holes at 17mm, 20mm and 26mm so you would have to drill new holes to mount the motors.

Also, whoever built that quad for the photo shoot has put the motor mounts on upside down.  The counter sinking should be on the underside.

How about swapping the frame to http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__25557__AQ_600_Carbon_Fiber_Quadcopter_Frame_550mm.html

This has motor mounts that will take a whole range of motors.  It has the advantage of space for a gimbal and the rods to mount it on and the design of the motor mounts means that you could upgrade it from an x4 to an x8 if you wanted to for more power and better redundancy.

teslahed

Quote from: Joker88 on Thursday,February 21, 2013, 20:39:47 1. Issue: Is it a problem(or inefficient) when the motor i have chosen only needs an ESC providing 20A and I choose a ESC providing 30A?


Using a 30 amp ESC when you need a 20 is fine. It means you have 10 amps headroom so if you are flying on a really hot day with poor ventilation you are less likely to have problems.

The only possibly problem using ESCs that are more amps than you need is weight. Some 20 amp ESCs are lighter than 30 amp ESCs. I wouldn';t worry much though - it will probably just be an extra 20 grams in total which is nothing on the quadcopters you are looking at building.

One circlip short of a quadcopter.
 1 lobe short of an antenna.

Joker88

Thanks for your tips SimonS, the other frame is really nicer for many reasons, the reason to choos the other frame was the price. But you are right, I will take the other one. But it is hard to justify the whole costs for the hobby. I said to my future wife(we will get married this year) that we need this quad, because of these awsome photos we can make whit it from the weeding ::).

I also have to thank you teslahed first question answered! :notworthy:

But could anyone help me with the second question about the prob?

Jumpy07

Quote2. Issue: I will use NTM Prop Drive Series 28-26A 1200kv from hobbyking, at the discription there is only one prob mentioned at a voltage of 14,8V : 8x4E - 14.8v - 222W - 15A. Does it mean, that this prob is the only one i should choose?

14.8v is for a 4s battery, depending on which prop size you use will vary the current that the motor will draw.  For this size motor and 1200kv a 8x.4.7 prop or 9x4.7 prop would be about right..  sometimes the prop size is trial and error and depends on finished weight of Quad.
These are mid range motors, plenty of thrust for the frames you are looking at..,  personally if it was me I would prefer a @ 1000kv motor  and swing a 9" prop.
BNUC-S Pilot with PfCo /PFAW.
UAQ / CAA PfCo Instructor / Flight Assessor

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"

SimonS

Sorry, I missed that question.  The props mentioned on the website are a good guide for where to start.  You could also try the 9x5 if you use a 3S battery. On my quad I have the NTM 2826 1000kv 315w motors and on that I run 9x5 Graupner props with a 4S battery or the 10x5 with a 3S.  With the 1200kv motors that you chose it suggests the smaller props as the motor want s to spin faster. 

Joker88

Thanks for the fast replay! ~~
Did i have something forgotten, or is my list complete?

SimonS

From your original list the only things that I would personally change are the frame and the motors to the 1000kv version.

I can';t comment on the controller as I have no experience of it.  There is a wide range of controllers out there and to use a computer analogy, if you want a ';Mac'; experience then get a Naza.  If you are happy playing around with windows or Linux (i.e. are prepared to have to work at the setup) there are many other options out there.  I have tried the KKv2 and it works fine but does require more flying experience than the Naza.  I have also read good reports on the Arduflyer 2.5 (firmware update to 2.9.1 available).

XH558

Quote from: SimonS on Thursday,February 21, 2013, 20:51:38
Also, whoever built that quad for the photo shoot has put the motor mounts on upside down.  The counter sinking should be on the underside.


I was intrigued by this and saw that you were right the countersinks were on the top ... BUT if you look at the other pictures provided you';ll see that they show 2 different possibilities for mounting the motors.. one way is to hang the motors underneath the mounts - hence the countersinks on top for that version... the other way is to mount the motors on top in the ';traditional'; way which would need the countersinks the other way round which, presumably, they did :rolleyes:

Just thought I';d mention it ... sorry no relevance to the thread ... I just like things to be right   ;) 

SimonS

Having looked at it again I see what you mean about the motor mounts Also they picture it with the NTM 2826 motor so I suspect that the 17mm and 20mm are incorrect and it is actually 16 & 19mm.

I still think that the other frame would be better as there would be very little room left to fit a camera once you have the battery and flight controller fitted.

Joker88

I already decided to take the other frame, but thanks again for looking again.

What would be the problem with the 1200kv motor why is it better to take the 1000kv motor. Later I want to add a gps(Lea 6), a gimbal with a small camera and a fpv system.  So I will need the extra power isn't it? This will come piece by piece.

I will take a programmable controller and no naza, when I have enough experience and good enough in "normal" flying I will try program small scripts.


SimonS

The 1200kv is max 250W while the 1000kv is max 315W. The 1000v is the more powerful.

mickyt

I know this does not follow this thread but i';ll just mention that i have just brought the talon tri-copter frame all components used are the same as the quad your looking at and im going to tell you now this is quality kit the carbon fiber is quality as are the tube clamps and motor mounts. ~~
If someone throw's a stone at you throw a flower at them just remember to throw the pot with it.

Joker88

Thank you SimonS I have overlooked that the other motor is the stronger one. I found  another motor more powerful than the other ones.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__25075__NTM_Prop_Drive_28_36_1000KV_400W_Brushless_Motor.html
This one has more trust 12x6E - 14.8V / 430W / 29A / 1.42kg thrust.
Is there anything why I shouldn't choose this one? Has the accu enough power for this motor, or have i to take a much more powerful accu. Can someone appreciate the flight time. When Iam taking a more powerful accu the weight is also going higher.

SimonS

That motor is another step up in size. It';s 28x36 against the 28x26 of the others. This would be a better choice if you are wanting to go to higher voltage batteries as it will take up to a 6S. The down side is this will require bigger/heavier/more expensive ESCs.

If you are looking for a quad to carry a GoPro or similar then I would stick to the 2826 motors.

Joker88

Okay i will take the 2826 1000kv: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__25082__NTM_Prop_Drive_28_26_1000KV_315W_short_shaft_version_.html
But my last question before i will order everything is about the prop. The motor has a maximum power of 315W but the Test Data is only for :
Prop Test Data:
9x4.7 - 11.1V / 113W / 10.2A / 0.632kg thrust
9x6   - 14.8V / 220W / 14.9A / 0.937kg thrust

Means this i can take bigger props? If it is so, which would be a good size with a higher trust than 1kg.
Need  :help:

SimonS

I run mine with Graupner 9x5 on 4S battery. 9x6 would also be ok or 10x6 on a 3S.

teslahed

What kind of flying are you interested in doing?

If you want to fly around slowly carrying a big heavy camera then lower KV motors (around 1000) with 10 inch props will work better.

If you want to fly fast and acrobatically, 9 or 8 inch props and a higher kV motor (1200kV approx) will work better.

Simply picking the highest power rated motor doesn';t necessarily give you best performance.
One circlip short of a quadcopter.
 1 lobe short of an antenna.

Joker88

Ohhh ahhh, now this prop size to kv relation makes more sense to me, thanks. This is(should, when I haven't forgotten something  ::) ) be the last undeclared thing on my shopping list.

But it is the same problem than it is everywhere else, people like to have everything combined (much money / less work) like me I want to be able to fly an agile and fast quad and also be able to carry a camera.  :smiley:

The camera would just be about 150g + gimbal, is this heavy in your eyes?

So if i would take the 1000kV, would it be better to take the 9x4.5 props or the 10x4.5.
Should i buy both, the smaller ones for flying fast and the bigger ones for later when i have the gimbal? At hobbyking I am unable to find props with sizes like 9x5 or 9x6 where do you by props like them and is there a big difference between a 9x4.5 and a 9x6?

teslahed

http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=813&productname=

http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=794&productname=

Those motors and props would go together well for powering a quadcopter around 1.2kg total weight. RCtimer sell the best cheap carbon fibre props.

Your best bet may be to look at other people with similar size quadcopters and see what they are flying with.

QuoteThe camera would just be about 150g + gimbal, is this heavy in your eyes?


About average.
One circlip short of a quadcopter.
 1 lobe short of an antenna.

Joker88

Thanks for your fast reply!

I am searching for a motor prop combination for a max flight weight of 1,5kg. I have read that the trust should be 3x the flight weight so: 3x1,5kg = 4,5 / 4(number of motors) = 1,125 trust of a single motor.

The problem is the motor you have shown me has no information of the trust at a 4s lipo and at 3s there is to less power.
So i found this one:http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=859&productname=

Sounds good to me if I can trust the information of the table:
at 14.8V / 0.8A / 10400 Speed
13.5 A / 1160 g / 199.8 W / LiPoŃ…4/10x4.7(APC)


So just add these props:
http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=799&productname=

Could this be ? is it possible, could I now be ready to place the order? :wack0

Pleas just give me a short answer if that would work together fine.  :crossfingers:


teslahed

Quote from: Joker88 on Wednesday,February 27, 2013, 19:23:09 Pleas just give me a short answer if that would work together fine.  :crossfingers:


I don';t think those motors are a good match for a quadcopter about 1.5kg in weight. They are far too heavy at 100 grams each for such a quadcopter and are rated to 6 cells which i don';t think you need.

Anyone flying anything a similar weight to this want to chip in?

One circlip short of a quadcopter.
 1 lobe short of an antenna.

Joker88

Iam happy I think I have found my motor :laugh:.

http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=823&productname=

11,1V 18A 196W 9220RPM 1100g trust + GWS9047EP

I would take tis porps: http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=794&productname=
I do not understand what the GWS or the EP means at the  GWS9047EP, is this necessary? :hmm:

I hope  ::) teslahed, SimonS or everyone else could give me a "good job, perfect motor for your task". I hope i would be able to order soon.

N7KI

As far as picking motor size and prop size, you might want to look at ecalc.com.  They have a quadcopter calculator that you can plug in frame, battery, motor, esc and prop size and it will let tell you how much you can lift and even info on flight time. 
Just a thought.

eyeflying

Quote from: Joker88 on Saturday,March 02, 2013, 12:49:46
Iam happy I think I have found my motor :laugh:.

http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=823&productname=



The only thing I would say about your final choice is that, whilst it would work, this motor is not really designed for multi-rotors. It has a long shaft and a push-on prop mount. You would be better off with a bolt-on prop mount and a short shaft motor.

Something like this: http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=814&productname=

Joker88

Thanks for your tip.

Also thank you for looking for an adequate motor bat the problem is that I am looking for a motor with a trust more than 1000g and 1000KV and I cant. :banghead:
(something like that: 11,1V 18A 196W 9220RPM 1100g trust )

If you know where I should be looking I would be deeply grateful.

And if I cant find a other motor, would the from me indicated props match together with the motor.  Or would you really dissuade from the motor?

(sorry for my bad grammar)