Hi and trying to sort out a spec for a hex

[philtrum]

Hi,

I';ve been lurking for a couple of weeks and soaked up as much as I can from the forum, theres some fantastic info on here  ::)

I';ve flown planes for years as a kid and then moved onto helis, had a huge break and been back into heli';s now for 6 months, I can fly circuits, inverted circuits, loops and rolls etc, so quite comfortable with flying

Im looking to do some aerial photography (stills), and at  some point want to progress to lifting a dslr

RCtimer seems to get good reviews here so I';ve done some searches and come up with a couple of options for a 550 size hex to lift a point and shoot type or small dslr.

ideally i want to have a camera cradle / gimbal to isolate vibrations and allow me to use the flaps channel on my dx7i to alter view from vertical to horizontal, with a small fpv setup so i can frame the pic from the ground whilst flying by sight.

theres two setups on rctimer that seem a v good price and have simonk firmware on the esc';s although they are not opto.

$239   SM550 V2 -SK30 - HP2212-1000KV  Kits 10X4.5" Carbon Fiber

SM 550 airframe
HP2212-1000kv brushless motor x 6 sets (Link)
SimonK Firmware ESC 30A x 6 sets (Link)
RM550 V2 Frame
1045 Carbon Fiber propeller  x 4 Pairs

http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=819&productname=



$195 SM550 V2 -SK30 - 2830-1000KV

SM 550 airframe
A2830-1000kv brushless motor x 6 sets
SimonK Firmware ESC 30A x 6 sets
RM550 V2 Kit
1045 Carbon Reinforced Forward&Reverse propeller  x 4 Pairs

http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=783&productname=

or .... do i spec up something with lower kv motors and swing bigger props with opto esc';s ?

any advice is welcome

thanks in advance
Phil

[philtrum]

Hi

forgot to say, this photography is the artistic kind and not for commercial use etc, more like top down shots of trees in black and white, or higher angle shots of landscapes to get a different viewpoint

Cheers
Phil

[philtrum]

sorry spamming my own post here, forgetting to add stuff in the rush to join the forum lol

for a flight controller, im thinking of the KK2 board with lcd, just to start me off, and then if I can afford it at a later date, upgrade to something else, or spend the time sorting a more complex setup (multiwii with gps etc)

[Jumpy07]

2nd spec looks better.. better motors, 
Smaller props will give you a more locked in feel..  lower Kv with bigger props will give you longer flight times......
Neither spec will lift a heavy SLR that well.

Its a good starter frame, and you can fit a gimbal that could carry something like a Sony Nex., trend for hobby is smaller cameras as overal package required to lift its is much cheaper.

The KK would get you flying.. but dont think it can control a gimbal, for photography postion hold is handy .. so something more sophisticated would be better..   Naza at the top end, Crius or similar at the bottom.. 

Also have a look at the Turnigy HAL Hex..  its a nice setup for an entry video platform.

There are some more knowledgable video / av people on here  who will be along shortly to give you more advice;.

[Flyinegypt]

Hello Phil. Seems you are chasing after the same solution as me. In my case it is very old structures.

Good to see Jumpy07';s recommendation for the HAL Hex as that is what I have settled on. I have purchased the Ardu APM 2.5 and the ublox LEA 6 gps unit. I really think the gps option is important because of the safety it can give with "return to home" and position hold etc. You might want to rethink the KK2 if you need those functions.

Jumpy, are you suggesting that we should start with props at the smaller size range first and then go up to the largest size for longer flight duration once we are comfortable with the flight characteristics?  Surely the larger props would pull more current and reduce duration, or do you need less throttle opening?

[Jumpy07]

can give with "return to home" and position hold etc. You might want to rethink the KK2 if you need those functions.

Jumpy, are you suggesting that we should start with props at the smaller size range first and then go up to the largest size for longer flight duration once we are comfortable with the flight characteristics?  Surely the larger props would pull more current and reduce duration, or do you need less throttle opening?

Larger props with lower KV motors end to give longer flight times..
For same KV,  then lowest recommended prop size will be more locked in..     if that makes sense :-)     for example a 1000kv motor could run 10".. but you might find the 9" would be better for a video platform.. trial and error may be required. 

[Flyinegypt]

Ok , I think I get it.
I was considering NTM 2826A 1000kv, NTM 2830 750kv or NTM 2836 750kv. With the 750kv motors I could start on say 9x5 for training and move up to something like 11x5 later on using 3S packs.
I am only looking at still images with a small fpv camera alongside for framing shots like Phil.

Sorry Phil, not trying to hijack your thread but hopefully the responses will be useful to both of us

[SimonS]

I think that it is worth pointing out that there is no standard across all the manufacturers for motor naming. Here is a picture of a DJI 2212 and an NTM 2826.



Despite the visual diferences in the picture (mainly due to the NTM prop adapter) these two motors are physically the same size. DJI measure the diameter and height of the coils while NTM measure the overall dimensions.

[Gaza07]

Hi  philtrum and welcome to the forum as said above the rctimer hex will carry a small camera but for anything more serious you would want something bigger, but it is a good place to start if you go for the 2830 option be sure to order some of the bolt on prop adapters to suit the motors, I run quite a few 2830 motors and find them quite good I cannot comment on the HP2212 except I quite like the look of them 
Your going to find flying multi rotors very easy with your previous experience with helicopters 
The KK2 flight controller is a very good controller for beginners or some one who just wants the basic features for a aerobatic machine for a camera ship you might want to consider the Naza or APM2.5 

[philtrum]

Not a problem, sounds like we are wanting the same thing,  only issue I see with the 11 inch props is having enough arm length so the props clear each other and have enough space to be efficient.

I know you can get arm extensions so that might do it.

My plan is to try and buy once, then just change the frame when I can afford it and proved the concept, but who knows where it will take me, if its anything like the heli';s I';ll be wanting 10 quads, 6 hex';s and a smattering of octos .... hell, i might even invent a 10 arm beasty running 2 flight controllers

The rctimer deal does seem good, and a good starting point to prove if its what I want.

The motors on the first one seemed better in my head but been advised here the 2nd deal is better

Is not having the opto esc';s a bad thing as neither deal has them

Cheers
Phil

[Jumpy07]

Hi have DJI Optos and also SimonK flashed ESC';s,

Pros and cons to Opto';s.. Optos dont have a BEC.. (5v supply for FC and Servos / Gimbal) so depending on what FC you get, you will need a UBEC to power it. Opto';s are rumoured to be better as less noise, esp good for FPV.

Personally I prefer the Simonk flashed ESC';s such as the Hobby King F30a';s (you need to flash them yourself)

Pick a frame and FC first.. then get the guys on the forum to recommend motors and ESC';s..
Personally on motors, would get some you can get spares for easily.. shafts, bearings and prop adapters.. I wouldnt buy DJI motors.. as they use odd prop fittings..,, get motors with bolt on adapters...  the friction type have a habbit of flying off.
Start with cheap props.. as you will break loads...  then when your better at flying.. get some Graupners our Carbon props...

[philtrum]

thanks Jumpy, my issue (as im sure with a lot of people) is funds, yes i want to lift my canon 5d with 17-40 L lens, but one its heavy and 2 best part of 2k if it goes into the deck hard 

so ..... my plan to start with is to get something for about £150-200 to prove i can take a pic in the air and theres enough interest for me to keep doing it, all be it with a more point and shoot camera, then add an adjustable camera mount and fpv to frame the pic once funds allow, then of course upgrade frame to a larger one to swing bigger props and lift more gear etc etc, along with changing the FC from a kk2 to something more all singing and dancing

so .... the 2nd deal you say is better due to the motors, which is great , as its the cheaper deal
a few quid for a FC from hobbyking and a battery and I should be airborne

i tried specking the same kit on rctimer with a different frame and it seemed a lot more expensive than the bundle pack
I';ll have another go and see what i can come up with.

Cheers
Phil

[philtrum]

right, done a spec up on rctimer

it seems they dont sell either of the motor sets in the kits seperatly ... grr .... buggered if one goes bang then

SM 550 airframe
2212-880kv brushless motor x 6 sets
SimonK Firmware ESC 30A x 6 sets
RM550 V2 Kit
1045 Carbon Reinforced Forward&Reverse propeller  x 4 Pairs

grand total of £256 dollars, compared to $195 for the bundle, or i could add another £20 dollars on it and get the 800 frame (same design as the 550)

hobbyking has good frame prices, but cant get the simonk ESC and choice of motors does not seem as good / no prop adapters available.

arrgghhhhh
Phil

[Jumpy07]

I have a Canon 60d and I wouldnt put it on my multis.. if I had a 5d would def not put it on one lol
Think you have the right approach.. whatever you start with you will probably change / upgrade as you learn.
Not sure about the KK..personnaly I would  consider something a bit better...  a slightly better FC although harder  to initially set up.. would make learning to fly easier....     the Crius AIOP although a little more expensive.. would grow with you... it has  baro and better sensors...which makes maintaining height stability a bit easier....   you can add GPS, telemetry and gimbals later...etc
Craig

[Gaza07]

I agree with Craig the kk2 is a nice controller but with the flying experience you already have you would get bored with it quite quickly 
I would go with the APM2.5 again a bit more money but its something your not going to have to upgrade later or wait for ported firmwares, there are lots of members on the forum with the APM so support wouldnt be a problem,
It has more functionality than most of the other flight controllers 

[philtrum]

Hi, have you got a link to the recommended flight controllers please and also what can you add to the basic again any links or basic costs would be great

Loving this forum
Phil

[Jumpy07]

Arduflyer / APM 2.5 http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=818&productname=
Cirus V2.0 http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=765&productname=

APM 2.5 runs Arducopter

Crius can run MultiWii or MegaPirateNG (Port of Arducopter)

There isnt much difference between the two cost wise..  my preference as Gary indicated would be the APM 2.5... as you will get software updates faster. A lot of people like MultiWii as its prob easier to get to grips with.

GPS for either of them @ £20, Rctimer does bundles

[Flyinegypt]

Is there a good reason why you tend to recommend RCtimer, an American company?
From the official Ardupilot web site they suggest Unmanned tech http://www.ardupilot.co.uk/where-to-buy.html for those in the UK
I purchased from them. Is RCtimer more cost effective even with the importation from the US?

Not being critical but just trying to learn who is the best to obtain stuff from

[Jumpy07]

3dr in the US designed the board and manufacture  in Mexico...the board files are issued under open source license..as well as the software..

A few months ago the Chinese started making a version which was significantly cheaper from the open source files..

Your choice..you can buy the 3DR board with backup and support...and support the development...or you can buy the cheaper Chinese version.....wont go into ins ands outs..as immotive subject

Personally I always gey caught with import from US...never from Hong Kong

Quite a few of us have the Rctimer board..

[Flyinegypt]

Thanks for the explanation. I was just looking at RCtimer and realised it was Honk Kong based.
I need more research

[philtrum]

just wanted to say thanks for all the info, sorry things have been quiet, trying to sell some stuff so I can buy the better hex gear and flight controller

if anyone in the midlands wants a large bonsai, compound archery bow, or an older gaming pc, let me know lol

in the mean time, I';ll keep reading posts and researching how to setup and program the arducopter board/software

Cheers
Phil