Seeking guidance for a stable AV platform :)

[steadiworkz]

Hi all, i';m doing as much research as possible on all this but obviously also seeking guidance from the more experienced members in the hopes I don';t make to many rookie mistakes.

I i';m looking to buy my first multi roto with the aim of being able to carry anything from a gopro upto a small interchangeable mirrorless camera like a Sony NEX 7 etc.
I';ve flown helis for a year or so but gave up for a few years due to lack of time, now i';ve got much more time to devote to it and am excited by the current tech of the new flight controllers like the naza and Arducopter for multi rotors.

I';m really unsure on what platforms will carry certain weights etc, i';m really interested in slow stable flights for getting the best slow and smooth shots. I work in film and tv however i';m not looking at going full on into using multi rotors for work, initially i';m doing it for fun in my spare time but who knows where it could lead.

As I said before the max size camera I would want to fly is a sony NEX sized camera, they weigh about 500g with lens Although I will start with my trusty Gopro until i';m confident flying.
My budget is around £600 to £800 For everything RTF (is this realistic?), obviously i';m not looking for a remote camera gimbal with this budget just a fixed underslung mount will do until I get a feel for flying the multirotors and can decide if i';m going to take it further.

Any help and advise will be taken on board and is most welcome :)

Cheers all

Matt

[Balders]

Hi Matt, welcome along.

I';ve been building a hexa platform for similar purposes although capable of lifting a fair bit more (I';m up around the 2kg mark at the moment and still testing).

Really the easiest way to do it is come up with a shopping list.  I would suggest maybe something like:

Naza with GPS (arguably the easiest and best out of the box flight controller going) - £300
6 x motors - £120
6 x esc';s - say £90
remote control gear - £150 (could be much less depending on what you go for/how long prepared to wait)
batteries - £100
Frame - £150

So a very quick "tot up" without any other ancilliaries (ie connectors, a gimbal which you say its not essential) and you are still in the £900 ball park.

It';s possible to cut corners on things like motors, and radio gear (especially if you already have some worth using) but for motors, I wouldn';t want to scrimp and save if sending 700 quid';s worth of camera into the sky.

Have a look at my youtube channel for some of my test flights. youtube.com/baldric450

[steadiworkz]

Cheers for the reply Balders, got loads of questions for ya :)
  So do you thin 6 motors is the way to go over say 4 ?
I was hoping I might be able to get a quad lifting what I need with larger props but sacrificing agility that I don';t need ?
You mentioned about RC gear and how long I would be prepared to with and I was woundering what you meant by this ?
Love your progress on the channel, you setup seems a bit twitchy at the moment is this mainly due to what your lifting etc ?

Keep up the good work 

[steadiworkz]

Bump ?

[Jumpy07]

Cheers for the reply Balders, got loads of questions for ya :)
  So do you thin 6 motors is the way to go over say 4 ?
I was hoping I might be able to get a quad lifting what I need with larger props but sacrificing agility that I don';t need ?
You mentioned about RC gear and how long I would be prepared to with and I was woundering what you meant by this ?
Love your progress on the channel, you setup seems a bit twitchy at the moment is this mainly due to what your lifting etc ?

Keep up the good work 

6 motors are more stable, but more complex and more cost, a decent sized quad would lift the Nex with the right props, motors and  ESC';s batts etc... but would probably more suited to the GoPro.

With six motors and some flight controllers.. you will also get some small amount of redundancy if things go wrong with any of the motors etc.

From what you have said you want to use it for, Hex would be my choice,  within your budget you will be limited to a very cheap gimbal and using the Flight controller to control it.

Do you still have the TX from your Helis that you can use ?..  ideally 8 channel +  (4 for flight, 2 for gimbal, 2 for flight modes if Naza)

Have a look at the Turnigy HAL HEX.. you can get a cheap gimbal for it..   throw a Naza on the frame.. and not a bad starter camera setup.

Best Regards

Craig

[Gaza07]

I would also agree a hex with something like a naza or arducopter controller sounds like the best option for you,
if you choose not to fit a gimble of any type your always going to see the affect the wind has on the copter in the video you shoot, the naza is the best out of the box solution but has limited functions when compared to the arducopter which can take a bit of time and fiddling to get it right, having said that the new arducopter 2.9.1 firmware is very good on default settings 

[Balders]

hi Steadi...sorry I';ve not been around much...been pretty poorly the last couple of weeks!

So, hex over quad...really it comes down to comfort.  I feel much more comfortable lifting heavy gear knowing I have 6 motors doing it sharing the load.  I';m sure technically 4 is probably fine, and indeed I run my tricopter most of the time with some cracking results.  But as I intend lifting some heavyish gear I need that comfort factor that having a nice big surplus of power gives you.

Naza is a great controller.  I';ve had some teething issues with I think some dodgy bullet connectors which is why I';ve had some twitchy moments, but when doing the heavy testing, it';s been all but solid.  All video';s have been sped up and in a fair bit of breeze and are either thumbs off or I';ve been throwing it around.

Anyway, feel free to ask as many questions as you like.

[steadiworkz]

Guys many thanks for the replies !!!

I';ve had a bit of an epiphany but i';d love to hear what you guys think of it.
My original plan was to get a mid sized multi rotor for carrying a small camera. At first get the platform and master flying and then when monies alow buy a decent stabilized gimbal to finish it off.  I had always though about designing my own camera mount but though beeter to buy shop bought as their seemed to be some good ones around.
I';ve now come to the conclusion I can build my own and will be concentrating on building the camera gimbal first and then when i';m happy get a multi rotor to fly it.
I';ve been a professional steadicam operator in film and TV for many years so camera stablization is nothing new to me. I';ve also flow helis with gyros and always though about marrying the two together. By putting 2 gyros on a pan and tilt head you will essentailly get a stablised head and this seems to be what is already being used by other commercially available systems.
I';m going to start small, say for a gopro sized camera and design the best most cost effective system possible.
If anybody has any references for me, links to forum posts etc or just sheer insight i';d love to hear about it :)

[SimonS]

The target to beat at the moment is this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ch2iRCWZfKc#!

The gimbal controller is available to order from tomorrow evening and the gimbal in about a month.  The other option to look at which is closer to the steadyCam that you are used to is the Ecilop www.ecilop.tv which is a quad without the need for a separate gimbal.

An example video shot on an Ecilop (not by me!)

Ben Bhraggie and the dog walker

[steadiworkz]

Oh wow, thats some seriously good results !

Much food for thought indeed, so is the AlexMos gimbal controller and IMU is just a stand alone device that controls the servos ?
Got plenty of reading to do now lol

[SimonS]

The AlexMos system is a little unclear at the moment. I believe that he has designed the controller which is available to order from 1800 CET tonight from Viacopter in Denmark or Flyduino in Germany.  There is a French company tht will be producing the gimbal which will have brushless motors not servos.  There is also a Chinese company (can';t remember the name) which has said that they were going to start shipping the controller and gimbal starting 17th Feb.  They took plenty of preorders but have just announced that they are about to start Beta testing.  There is a long discussion over on RCgroups with a lot of unhappy customers.  I believe that the Chinese boards and gimbals were to be made in China but the boards from the other two dealers are made in Denmark.

If you look at a lot of youtube videos you will see that it is rare to see a bad video from gimbals with brushless motors (eg Zenmuse) while it is equally rare to see good videos from servo controlled gimbals.  The Ecilop (there is also an American copy) seems to be the exception but that uses a system of springs in the drive chain.

[steadiworkz]

Yes indeed I see the brushless motors are looking to be an excellent solution with the relevant modifications. I will definatly be keeping a close eye on all of this, just like many others I guess.
The Ecilop is a very clever steadicam like gimbal however I can';t help thinking its over engineered however the principle is fantastic, I';m sure it would fly very well ! One problem with the Garret brown steadicam is that its very susceptible to wind and other unwanted forces, mechanical gyros will often be used along side the regular sled of the system and even weighted antlers to add width to the inertial along the 2 Axis.