Crius MultiWii SE V1.0 ALT HOLD and POS HOLD Problems

[bunnygirl80]

Hi,
Been out flying again!  ::)
I noticed the alt hold doesn';t seem to be working.
I also tried the position hold and that doesn';t seem to be working either.
I had a GPS lock before takeoff.
Hovering on ACRO without auto level is beautiful.
Hovering with auto level is also pretty good. Might increase PID for a faster response.
I read about some people position hold drifting 2-3 meters. Mine was drifting in one direction 5-6 meters before i had to intervene with stick input.
I wonder if it is my setup or perhaps cheap Crius board with non accurate baro!
http://www.unmannedtechshop.co.uk/multi-rotor/flight-controller-boards/multiwii-se-flight-control-board.html
Would love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks.

[Gaza07]

The prob you have Stef is the Bmp085 baro just doesn';t work well and never has, as for the gps you should be able to get that to hold but the drifting up and down wont help things much 

[bunnygirl80]

Hi Gaz,

Thanks for confirming that. You';re a STAR!  ;D

When I originally bought my quad - I didn';t know anything about them, I didn';t know how to build them, I didn';t know if I would like them and I didn';t want to spend too much just in case it all ended in tears!

So, I bought something on a budget, something I could learn to fly with! The build and configuration was a steep learning curve and one that I';ve really really enjoyed!  ::) Yes, I';ve only just started and yes I';ve got loads more to learn, but I do want to get a good setup that i like and feel confident and happy with.

I want to move on to HD filming and FPV later on and really do want my position hold, altitude hold and RTH to work well from the outset and if it means getting another FC and / or GPS, then so be it!

My understanding at the moment is that the Naza,Wookong and YS are the best ones, but my question is what do you actually gain? Is it worth the extra money? Can you achieve the same result with a well configured MultiWii or other Arduino based setup?

Being a programmer myself, I am slightly Arduino biased and find the coding relatively easy. I';ve already moved the Failsafe level landing code from the MultiWii development release to the latest 2.1 release. I';ve also purchased an Arduino Uno and breadboard and already started some new code for buzzer, current and voltage sensing and my plan is to move this code into the MultiWii 2.1 and later versions. I';m putting all my enhanced code into a separate include file so that it can be easily moved into a new release when it comes available. So, the other advantage to upgrading my FC now is that I can use this MultiWii SE board for development of the code on my desk!  ;D

What would you recommend as a new board / approach ?

Thanks,

Stef (p.s. I am now officially a geek! LOL! Ah! I';ve always been one really!  )

[Gaza07]

Hi Stef yea I fully understand the starting on a budget we all do and Im not knocking the controller for the price its a very good start, but you will want something better to get a good ariel platform,
The gps module you have is fine and a good choice and will work with the higher quality boards,
The Dji wookong is at the top of its class and is also very expensive around £750 
The Dji Naza is around £300 with gps and is a very good platform holds position very well and is very easy and forgiving to fly but it doesn';t offer way points or some of the other features that can be found  with some of the arduino based flight controllers,
The new Crius AIOP v2 (all in one pro) is a very good board and you have the choice of running multi wii or megapirate which is a port from the arducopter project and works very well, but as you know all these projects take some tweaking unlike the ready to fly boxed products from Dji,
Megapirate / Arducopter offer full mission planning and autonomous flight when setup right,

the other choice which works out a little more expensive is the Arduflyer 2.5 also from rctimer but this uses the arducopter code which can be loaded directly using the mission planner, the gps you have will work with both these options but you would need to buy a few more bits like a case for the arduflyer board and a 3dr power module 3dr telemetry modules so you can communicate with the copter while it airborne 

heres a few links for you to look at

Crius AIOP
http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=765&productname=

3dr Telemetry modules 433mhz
http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=834&productname=

Arduflyer 2.5
http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=818&productname=

Arduflyer 2.5 case
http://www.buildyourowndrone.co.uk/ArduPilot-Mega-2-5-Protective-Case-Side-Opening-p/ardupilot-2.5-box-side.htm

Arduflyer 2.5 power module
http://www.buildyourowndrone.co.uk/ArduPilot-Mega-Power-Module-XT60-Connectors-p/apm-pm-xt60.htm

Thats the two choices I would recommend  AIOP with telemetry modules or The Arduflyer 2.5 with case power lead and telemetry modules

But if you want a stable easy to setup out of the box controller that really does take some beating then the naza would be the choice


Ps:  I thought multi wii already had a buzzer routine ? there is a few of us on the forum got the arduflyer and its a very good board but you cannot load multi wii on it like you can the AIOP
Having said that Arducopter is a huge and very well supported project and normally costs much more to get involved in, Jumpy07 also has both platforms and may comment and  give his thoughts on the two controllers 

[Gaza07]

oooh ive just thought the AIOP come';s with all pins soldered in the arduflyer doesn';t you have to solder all the pin type connectors to it, only the small ones with the white shrouds are pre fitted,
you can see pics of the start of my arducopter project here http://www.multi-rotor.co.uk/index.php?topic=1091.0 just thought I better mention it as I remember you didnt like soldering much 

[Ross]

Well, I guess Gaz gets 10/10 for that reply.   Now  I know a bit more as well. 

[guest325]

I can confirm the Crius AIOP boards are very good, I have the V1.1 running Megapirate firmware which isn';t as good as the new V2 one (Sensors not as good); mine holds height and position quite well (within about 1.5 - 2 metres radius) so I would assume the new board could possibly be more accurate.

[Ross]

Bet the Crius board was not from that  "duff" lot  Hobbyking sold

[Gaza07]

Darrel the v1 v1.1 and v2 have all the same sensors the only difference is the baro has the metal case, but its the same baro 

[guest325]

Bet the Crius board was not from that  "duff" lot  Hobbyking sold

I think it came from rctimer, Peter King seems to get most of his stuff from there.

[marckatzenmaier]

Thnx Gaza for the info,i am thinking of getting another board too. :))

[bunnygirl80]

Hi Gaz,

Sorry for not replying sooner! Set off from the house 5am this morning to work in London and only just got back in through the door about 30 minutes ago! Knackered! It';s a long drive from Preston!. I';ll have a read of your replies tomorrow and look at the links. In the meantime, do you think you can achieve the same result as a DJI Naza with the boards you have recommended?

Catch up tomorrow,

Stef 

[Gaza07]

Hi Stef now that';s a good question Ive not owned a Naza but have seen a lot of videos and helped people where I can get them off the ground and from what Ive seen the Naza is a super stable platform out of the box with very little setup,
Will the Arduino type flight controllers compete with it, for functionality yes because the Naza does position hold and return home / fail safe but it cannot fly way points or any type of pre planned missions, some people say a well tuned arduino based flight controller is as stable as the naza but Im not sure the Naza does what it does very well but at a cost,
I have had some of the arduino base flight controllers quite well setup and I have to say they are very good but, It can take a lot of tweaking to get them as good as or nearly as good as the Naza, did think about getting a Naza my self but after giving it some thought dropped the idea because I enjoy the tinkering as much as the flying and would probably get bored with the Naza quite quickly

If you want a out of the box no mess no fuss platform that work';s very well then the Naza with gps is your choice,  but if like some of us you do like the challenge of the setup and all the new updates that keep coming then a arduino based system is the choice 


Im surprised some of the Naza owners haven';t posted here to put their point of view across 

[bunnygirl80]

I think I';ve scared all the Naza guys away with all my techy geeky talk! LOL. 

[Gaza07]

Maybe but sausageroll (Pete) would normally be the first to harp on about how good the Naza is but I happen to know he is extremely busy with his business right now and doesn';t have any free time for flying or the forum, you seem to have taken to the multi wii code very well and Im not sure if your aware but you can submit code changes to the mutli wii forum to be considered to be added to future releases of the firmware, I wish I could write the code but its far to complex for me 
You can find the multi wii forum here http://www.multiwii.com/forum/ 

It might be a good idea to spend a bit of time on you tube and look for Naza megapirate and arducopter videos 

[mickyt]

Hi Stef, I';d love to be able to answer your question but me and computers and all this programming malarkey is a bit of a tall order I';m not computer savvy, but as Gary said the naza is a great bit of kit and does what it';s supposed to do very well so well in fact that its enabled me to fly something for the first time ever.
I would say if your into programming and have the time to tinker and understand all the techy lingo and persevere with it any of the boards you guys and girls have could/would be better than the naza but if your like me and dont do programming tinkering then it will be the naza every time just purely for out of the box performance.

[bunnygirl80]

Hi Micky,

Yes, I understand what you mean. I know programming isn';t for everyone. I started when I was 9 on an old BBC Micro if you remember them in the 80';s! LOL. Then did a degree and masters in Software Engineering. I';ve been programming in one way or another ever since! I love it!  ::) Programming these rotors just takes me back to the 90';s! LOL. I';m going to do a bit more research before I decide.

Thanks again,

Stef

[mickyt]

Hi Stef, I think with what you have acheived with your quad and fc so far is outstanding, and if you continue to tinker i think you could well have something better than the naza. I think at this rate as gary said you could be submitting your own code for future update';s .

all the best
Mick

[bunnygirl80]

Hi guys,

Sorry for being quiet and not responding to all your advice, I';ve just been away from the office for the past few days! Okay, in the end I opted for the AIOP. Yes, I';m a tinker bell and I like to play, so this will be my next step! I';ve ordered what you said Gaz, the AIOP and the 3DR board, but I haven';t got a clue what the 3DR board is for? What does this do? Also, do I need any other special cables, like the FTDI board and cable I needed to program the Cruis MultiWii SE?

Thanks,

Stef

p.s. Did you get the code comment?

[QuadBod]

Hi Stef,

The 3DR gives you wireless telemetry so you can change settings on your flight controller without hooking up a laptop to its USB port, or send navigation instructions from your ground station / flight planner mid-flight, as well as receiving position and status updates.

The ground module connects via USB to your laptop (and presents a virtual serial device as a COM port) , and the air module connects via serial to the flight controller, so effectively you get access to the console port from the ground. You could add a bluetooth module to the same end, but with limited range, so okay for changing settings on the ground or at short range, but no good for in-flight navigation.

Of course for navigation you need GPS, and I didn';t see that on your shopping list, so that may be something to come back to when you have everything else working to your liking.

Matt.

PS. Connect the aerials before you plug in the modules, or you could damage them.

[bunnygirl80]

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the explanation. All clear now!  ;D I';ll certainly be careful with those aerials.

I just cant wait for it to arrive now so that I can get cracking with setting it up to see if its any better than the SE! Need to get all sorted before the sun arrives!

Stef

[KK1W]

Stef,

I ordered the same telemetry set from RCTimer (same as the 3DR), only difference is they';re 900 MHz for the USA. I was somewhat worried reading a lot of posts about problems - it went all too smoothly for a change

The APM board from RCTimer came with the correct cable for the onboard radio, the ground radio plugged right into the USB port, windozeXP found it and installed it. Mission Planner had the port listed and both radios had a steady green light meaning they were setup the same and talking to each other. I did fuss a bit with Mission Planner before I got the radio setup working. It';s probably me but I seem to always be missing something when I';m working with MP. I referred to Craig';s APM guide and the DIYdrones wiki to bail me out when I guessed wrong. I think you use MP with your FC but if not then the rest of this may not be any help.

When you first setup the radio in MP don';t press the ';connect'; button in the right hand corner. Run the 3DR radio setup, press the ';load settings'; button, make any necessary changes, write it to both and save settings. During this time the setup program is connected to the 3dr radios.
Exit the config screen, then press the connect button. It should connect just like the wired connection and away you go. It';s so cool to pick up the quad and watch the horizon change in Mission Planner.

Anyway, with your computer ability you shouldn';t have any problems I';m sure. Like others said, just keep the antennas (aerials you brits call them) on - those little transmitters don';t like running without a load.

Haven';t done any flying. -15C and winds up to 25 MPH - same for tomorrow. It was a good day to play around with stuff instead. I still have to mount this stuff on the quad, and also make it easily removable so I don';t trash everything on the first few crashes!

[bunnygirl80]

Hi KK1W,

Thanks for the info. Yup, the weather isn';t much good over here either! So, as soon as it arrives I will be fitting it into my quad and setting up. I';ll probably call upon you for some help! ;o) In the meantime, have fun and pray for good weather! )

Stef

[QuadBod]

Also, do I need any other special cables, like the FTDI board and cable I needed to program the Cruis MultiWii SE?

I just noticed I only answered one part of your question - no you don';t need the FTDI (USB to TTL serial) board with the AIOP itself, as there';s one built into the AIOP internally connected to serial 0 (S0). S0 is also available on a 6 pin molex, but you probably wont need to use that, as you';ll either be connecting via USB, for example to flash the firmware, or via the 3DR (typically connected to S3) for configuration and telemetry.

You can use the FTDI board to connect your GPS to your ';puter to change its settings, or to connect the non-USB "air module" 3DR (the "ground module" has an FTDI chip baked in) to update the firmware. The 3DR setup page that KK1W mentioned will only update the locally attached radio';s firmware, so you have to attach the other one directly to your computer to update it. 3DR settings can go over the air as KK1W says.

[bunnygirl80]

Hi all,

Well the flying is coming along nicely and no major incidents. I';ve been out about four times so far, but not easy with this terrible weather we';re having. I';m just finishing another video which i will post later on this evening.

This leads me to my question which still relates to the POS HOLD feature. I';ve programmed my AUX 1 switch to LEVEL and LEVEL + ALT HOLD and I';ve programmed my AUX2 switch to POS HOLD + LEVEL + ALT HOLD. Despite balancing the props and leveling the rotor on the ground, it still doesn';t POS HOLD. I';ve done all this with my laptop next to me with bluetooth to laptop showing the GPS screen of the MultiWiiGUI. It flies beautifully when in just LEVEL mode, but nothing else seems to make any difference. AUX1 in LEVEL + ALT HOLD doesn';t do anything. AUX2 in POS HOLD + others doesn';t do anything!!! Mmm! Weird!

Where should the AUX1 and AUX2 switches be and do i need to use LEVEL, ALT HOLD and POS HOLD to get POS HOLD to work? Also, does my throttle need to be in a particular place or range for it to work? I am trying all of this about 3 meters off the ground (just in case).

Thanks again for your help!  ;D

[hibbo]

Hello, I saw this on this forum http://www.multi-rotor.co.uk/index.php?topic=509.0 and thought it may help answer your original question.

Keep in mind the hovering accuracy in GPS mode is +/-.8 meters vertically and +/- 2.5 meters horizontally. The Naza and GPS sell for $400. For that price, you get a very accurate system. Some people on the thread complain all day long about how it will not hover EXACTLY in one spot. What do you expect for $400? If you must hover EXACTLY in one spot, there are other high dollar alternatives you can purchase. The Naza and GPS are what is referred to by DJI as "hobby grade" use.

If that';s what the Naza does straight out the box me thinks the open source stuff gonna need a whole lot of tinkering lol.  I know It';s not much help but might be some reassurance that your board is working fine.  And I';m sure with your programming background (and foreground I guess) you';ll be schooling everyone sooner than you think. 

Have fun