Hobbyking Y650 Scorpion

[miniconverter]

First time post and new to multi-rotor so after lots of help and advice. Looking to build a Hobbyking Y650 Scorpion mainly because I like the look of it plus I fancy a ago at a multi rotors.

First a bit about me as I think it will help. Will be 51 in a couple of months and have been flying planes since I was about 10 free-flight and control line. Started flying radio controlled when I was 16 using 2 channel 27MHz so about 35 years RC experience. Still fly a bit of control line now but no free-flight. Built planes from plans kits artf and rtf also built a few own design. Flown nitro electric and slope soarers.Consider myself to be a good pilot but not as good as I was a few years ago as the eyes and the reactions aren't as good.

First flew helicopters about 20 years ago using mechanical gyros but have never stuck with it like I have planes. Seem to get bored with them and leave them for a couple of years and then come back to them. Not a great heli pilot but can hover in all orientations and fly circuits can somtimes loop and roll but doesn't always go well and ends in a repair bill. Have loads of helis MFA sport which is very old an MSR MCPX 250 450 500 and a 600 so loads to break.

Raced 1/8th scale cars up to world level for a few years about 25 years ago. Also had a retail business in the model trade which I got rid of about 8 years ago. So that's me now all i need to know is the following.

I have ordered a Hobbyking KK2.0 Multi-rotor LCD Flight Control Board and a USBasp AVR Programming Device for ATMEL proccessors are these any good and will they work with the Hobbyking Y650 Scorpion?

Will the Hobbyking Y650 Scorpion be suitable for someone new to multi-rotors?

Which motors and props will be best?

Which speed controllers?

Will it lift a camera OK both still and video?

What else will I need?

Sorry for all the questions thanks in advance for any help I get.

[Gaza07]

Hi miniconverter and welcome to the forum, looking at the specs on the kk2 board it does support the Y6 configuration so you shouldn't have any problems there, I wouldn't normally not recommend going straight to a Y6 for a beginner but with all the experience you have and the fact you already fly helicopters to a decent level I think you will be fine,
You can get a camera gimble for the scorpion here http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=22802
In the case of some one new to flying I would recommend a quad as the scorpion can be broken on the odd arrivals 
The KK2 board is the latest version and contains all the firmware for the different configurations so you won't need the programmer or not straight away, they may release updates later that you might need this for, As for motors and esc's I have mostly used Rctimer products and some keda motors both have performed very well the 2830 rctimer range of motors are a very good choice and a good robust motor you should be looking at around 750kva to 1000kva i tend to stick with the rctimer esc's either 20 or 30a you will also need the programming card for them because you must disable the lipo cut off and the brake, it is a paint to try to set these up by using the beeps and the cards are only a couple of pounds, In most cases I use 10x4.5" you can get them from rctimer to, I had some HK props in the past and they weren't really very good quality, I will add some links for you below

ESC's (these can be flashed at a later date to make them faster)

20a http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=147&productname=

30a http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=146&productname=

Programming card http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=488&productname=


MOTORs: you could use the 2208 or 2212 range also
2830-13 850kv http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=122&productname=

2830-11 1000kv http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=121&productname=

PROPS: there are other colours they even do pink 

1x pair 10x4.5" http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=625&productname=

12x pairs 10x4.5" http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_details.dwt&goodsid=626&productname=

You can probably find most of this gear on Giant Shark in the UK if you dont like to wait for the delivery from china

I hope this helps don't hesitate to ask any questions you might have

cheers
Gary


on a side note:
I have a scorpion but its not the same version you have I bought the original one from GLB and to be honest its quite flimsy and made from a type of nylon,
I broke the skid legs very easily and ordered spare parts for it from HK, I was supprised when they came how much stronger and better quality they were, I fitted them to my scorpion with a little tinkering as there was slight differences and thought no more broken skids, well the fist heavy landing and the new strong legs and skids stood up to it very well, but the new leg being so strong it broke the main frame instead  The nylon scorpion is just not strong enough and I will be replacing mine with the much better HK fibre glass version   
 

[Rappy Freak]

I have the Y6 Scorpion aswell.  My one has two undercarriage skids on each side.  The frame is a compressed Nylon fibreglass frame and seems quite strong.  Went together nice and easy.  Its my first multicopter and have only flown it for a few mins at a time so far.  I am hoping may be to get some flights in very soon. 

[Gaza07]

I wonder if there is actually three versions of this frame mine is nylon I dont think there is any fibre glass in there as its easily bent and only the one skid, Where did you get your from Rappy Freak ?

[Rappy Freak]

I got my one from UAVshop. 

[Gaza07]

Ive just looked on the uavshop and thats the same make as mine but there must be a new version that has been beefed up as mine only has the one skid like the pictures, it is still the best looking frame and I will repair the crack in mine its not that bad it just p*ssed me of when I did it  ::)

Here's the weird thing I paid more than Alex sells them for on the Uavshop but from china go figure  :-\

[Rappy Freak]

I had a good shop round for my one and found it was really the best price.   

[miniconverter]

Thanks for the help so far. Was wondering if these ESC's would be any good. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=17135

Good price and fall into the right amps range but not sure if they would work with the KK2.0 controller or not. The HK site says the signal to the ESCs is 1520us so I would assume these to be OK but read somewhere that not all ESCs are compatible with all controllers.

Can get a program card for them as well so won't take a month to program them listening for beeps whilst messing with my stick

By the way will definitely be going for the pink props

[Gaza07]

I have never used these before so can only refer to the reviews on the HK site there seems to be quite a few bad ones to do with multi rotors 
When I looked at the spec's I don't see any where you can disable auto cut off only set how it cuts off, it is very important that you have this disabled, Although the spec's of some of the other esc's don't say you can disable the auto cut off, you normally can when Nixx (nicad) is listed as one of the settable options, when an esc is set to nixx and Cut-off Type Soft / Cut-off Voltage Low this is what normally disables the cut off, I don't see nixx as an option in the spec's below so dont know if they have missed it off or it just doesn't support it, it might be a gamble getting these some of the reviews are very good but mostly plane flyers 

Specs:
Cont. Current: 25A
Burst Current: 50A
BEC: 5volts / 2amps
Weight: 42.5 Gram (including wires and plugs)
Battery Plug: XT-60
Motor Plug: 3.5mm Bullet Connector

Thanks for the help so far. Was wondering if these ESC's would be any good. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idproduct=17135

Good price and fall into the right amps range but not sure if they would work with the KK2.0 controller or not. The HK site says the signal to the ESCs is 1520us so I would assume these to be OK but read somewhere that not all ESCs are compatible with all controllers.

Can get a program card for them as well so won't take a month to program them listening for beeps whilst messing with my stick

By the way will definitely be going for the pink props

[miniconverter]

Will go with the rctimer ones then, never heard of them before but best to stick to what people know works for my first build. allways had good results previously with Turnigy products in the past but will leave the experimenting till I have had a successful build. Usually read the reviews on HK but for some reason when I click on the reviews tab i just get a black screen.

[MadMax]

Turnigy plush are well known to be good for multi rotors 
I read some where that Rctimer esc's are re-branded hobby wing and that the turnigy plush and rctimer are the same just cant recall where I saw it  ::)

[Gaza07]

Yea the turnigy plush range are very good, I also heard the same about Rctimer and hobby wing 

[Gaza07]

The HK F-20A is supposed to be good to http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__15202__Hobby_King_20A_ESC_3A_UBEC.html
Or the HK F-30A http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__15205__Hobby_King_30A_ESC_3A_UBEC.html

[UAVshop]

Turnigy plush are well known to be good for multi rotors 
I read some where that Rctimer esc's are re-branded hobby wing and that the turnigy plush and rctimer are the same just cant recall where I saw it  ::)

Stay away from RCTimer motors and ESCs......rubbish! Lots of customers with problems with the ESCs, and I had some of the motors a while ago....will not be selling them again!!
Spend a couple of quid extra and get something better, you'll be glad in the end!

Best!
Ale

[Gaza07]

Hi Alex were the ones you had that bad ? I have used there gear a lot and had a couple of problems but they always resolved anything that was wrong, although I havent bought any motors or esc,s recently so wouldnt know if there quality had taken a dive,
I have some pretty good video's with stable flights using only rctimer products so Im suprised by your statement, I did notice the keda motors I bought seemed to run a little nicer though 

Stay away from RCTimer motors and ESCs......rubbish! Lots of customers with problems with the ESCs, and I had some of the motors a while ago....will not be selling them again!!
Spend a couple of quid extra and get something better, you'll be glad in the end!

Best!
Ale

[UAVshop]

Well Gaza in one sense a motor is a motor - you put power in it, it turns....RCT motors do work, I know lots of people use them.

But when looking for a 'budget' motor to sell, I had problems with them. Out of my first batch (this was about 9 months ago - I think I got about 24 to try), two didn't work at all, and one had a mis cut thread in the mounting holes - these had gone out to customers so had to be replaced.
I put  a set of four on one of my quads, and it flew but sounded horrible, enough vibration to make the FC unhappy (a 91Q at the time).
On inspection found slight play in two motor bearings, swapped them out and it was better, but still didn't sound good.
You may not think sound is important but you can tell a lot about a motor from the sound! (Don't be confused by prop noise though, cheap flexible flappy props can also sound bad, and don't perform well - again for the sake of a £ or two, not worth the saving, which is why I don't sell them).
Anyway, later fitted a set of Tiger 2216 on my quad. Huge improvment, very smooth, great performance, longer flight time and sound great! Of course you pay quite a bit more for the Tigers.....

I guess it's just down to your own experience - maybe I was unlucky and got a bad batch, and I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who will argue that RCT are good, and have been using them successfully for a long time.....but not me I'm afraid!
Every brand, cheap or expensive will have occasional issues (Tiger recently had a bad batch of bearings, luckily I didn't get any!), but when you have problems with 5 motors out of a batch of 24, that's not good. It's only fair to point out though, that I had problems with the 2836/9s.....I also had some 2830/12s (which I never flew myself) but only had one bad one reported from customers.

Haven't used RCT ESCs myself, but have had people come to me with problems that turned out to be RCT ESC related. Many of the ESC brands are made by the same people (although it's sometimes hard to be sure who makes what!), but firmware often varies and that can cause some issues.

Currently for budget ESCs I'm selling iPeak - they're easy because no programming or throttle calibration is needed, they're just plug and go, and so far only one dead ESC reported in the last 100 or so sold (about the same success rate as you find with genuine HobbyWing). The iPower motors seem to be a pretty good compromise between price and quality too, so far anyway!

Best!
Alex

[teslahed]

Currently for budget ESCs I'm selling iPeak - they're easy because no programming or throttle calibration is needed, they're just plug and go, and so far only one dead ESC reported in the last 100 or so sold (about the same success rate as you find with genuine HobbyWing). The iPower motors seem to be a pretty good compromise between price and quality too, so far anyway!

Can they be flashed with the SimonK firmware? I found flashing my RCTimer speed controllers with the simonK firmware made them perform a lot better to the point that i wouldn't buy a speed controller that couldn't be flashed.

So far my experience of the RCTimer motors has been good. I always order 5 when i need 4 though. One criticism i will make - the prop adapters that fit on them often arrive slightly bent or else bend very easily after crashes. I haven't damaged a motor for weeks now but I'm down to my last 4 straight prop adapters (I've ordered some new ones).

[MadMax]

I had four motors from rctimer and the bearings were gritty in 3 of them from new, I emailed them and they sent me a pack of bearings enough to replace all 4, and a velcro strap for free, while this was good customer service on their part it is still quite annoying when you have to wait a couple of weeks to be able to use your new motors, I know buying in the ik can cost a bit more but it is some times well worth the extra for the support you get