Flying, Rules and Regs for all RC Model Aicraft, Multis, FPV and Commercial

[Jumpy07]

At a glance regs for different types of flight , (accurate as of Jan 2015)

[deano]

I was under the impression that when flying fpv as long as the spotter can see it, its legal.

[DarkButterfly]

What I don';t get is, without a camera you can fly a machine that weighs up to 20Kg, with a camera it';s only 7Kg without FPV, that';s BS, what difference does a camera make.... Bugger all that';s what.

Sorry for the rant.

[flybywire]

THat';s a nice ';cut out and keep reference';.  Interesting how you are allowed to go up to 1000ft fpv within visual range of a spotter, but only 400ft up when flying LOS.  Not quite sure of the logic there, but I';m not complaining.

[Dougelove]

So if not FPV and just a hobbiest under 7k.......
I can fly to infinity and beyond! Better stick a couple of 2000w LEDs on it so all & I can see it. 
Not too well thought out that!!!
I';ll stick to a couple o hundred meters, where I can see it clearly. 

[barneyg]

That';s Brilliant Jumpy ... one question ... where does FPV from a base station screen fit in ?

[DarkButterfly]

That';s Brilliant Jumpy ... one question ... where does FPV from a base station screen fit in ?

It';s probably under the same category as goggles

[drummerftw]

Would someone kindly help me please?

I';m struggling to understand whether or not I need permission from the CAA to do the flying that I';m planning on... here';s my situation:


I will be flying a small quadcopter (<7kg) with a camera attached, and intend to take photos/videos of private land/buildings (this is for taking images of buildings as part of pre-demolition waste surveys). This will always be on private land where the owner has granted permission, usually on industrial sites. One example coming up includes a site which is next to an active railway...


Does anyone have any ideas? Thanks in advance!

[deano]

Are you getting paid for it?

[ShackFlyer]

drummerftw,

If there is any ';gain'; either direct (monetary) or implied (work/particular job, or benefit due to it) i.e. if it is done wrt any commercial business then legally that can be defined as ';Aerial work';, so IMHO you would need to do either a BNU-S or RPQ-S qualification and gain PFAW (permission for aerial work) from the CAA.

In the current climate legally with the CAA looking to make examples of people where possible, it also makes sense to be safe rather than sorry.

[Nige8021]

I';ve been asked to do a similar task, our residents association would like to have a "fly through" video of the new play park that has been installed, I would do it free of any charges, but it';s in a very highly congested area CMK shopping centre is within 150 meters and the flats are on three sides of the 50 meter play park.

[Big A]

drummer & nige

As well as the potential "aerial work" possibilities you also need to consider what the purpose of the flight is. If the purpose isn';t "sport and/or recreation" you may be placing yourself outside your insurance.

[ShackFlyer]

Nige

CAP 393 Art167 2c Small unmanned surveillance aircraft, states;

Must not fly within 50m of any vessel, vehicle or structure not within the control of the person in charge of the aircraft.

Plus if you did do it, you would need the addiitional D,D & D insurance the BMFA offer if no gain (i.e. if you can justify it as NOT Aerial work) IMHO

See this http://www.bmfa.org/News/News-Page/ArticleID/2141/Model-Flying-Technology-Developments-the-BMFA-Position

Personally I wouldn';t do it if the footage was to be used on a promotional web-site & be hosted on YT or Vimeo etc.

[Revs]

Cheers for posting that up, Jumpy

So if I take my cameras off my copters I can fly in regulated air space at any altitude? Seems odd, I won';t be doing that.

It';s nice to see we can fly up to 1000ft with FPV and a spotter, though

[Nige8021]

Nige

CAP 393 Art167 2c Small unmanned surveillance aircraft, states;

Must not fly within 50m of any vessel, vehicle or structure not within the control of the person in charge of the aircraft.

Plus if you did do it, you would need the addiitional D,D & D insurance the BMFA offer if no gain (i.e. if you can justify it as NOT Aerial work) IMHO

See this http://www.bmfa.org/News/News-Page/ArticleID/2141/Model-Flying-Technology-Developments-the-BMFA-Position

Personally I wouldn';t do it if the footage was to be used on a promotional web-site & be hosted on YT or Vimeo etc.

The video would be on the residents association website only, but would be shown to the various sponsers of the play park to justify their involvement, I want to do it, but don';t want my collar felt for breaking the law  Even the local PC assigned to the area thinks it would be a good idea !!

[Rustydiver]

Call me a thicko but why can I fly my hex sub 7kg almost anywhere and up to no max altitude but as soon as I fit a camera I can';t take off nr, go above etc.  seems daft a camera has such an impact.
Yea I understand privacy comes into it but at 400ft up.

[richardg6paj]

Would someone kindly help me please?

I';m struggling to understand whether or not I need permission from the CAA to do the flying that I';m planning on... here';s my situation:


I will be flying a small quadcopter (<7kg) with a camera attached, and intend to take photos/videos of private land/buildings (this is for taking images of buildings as part of pre-demolition waste surveys). This will always be on private land where the owner has granted permission, usually on industrial sites. One example coming up includes a site which is next to an active railway...


Does anyone have any ideas? Thanks in advance!

Instead of relying on speculation, why not get in touch with the CAA and find out for sure.

Richard

[kilby]

Would someone kindly help me please?

I';m struggling to understand whether or not I need permission from the CAA to do the flying that I';m planning on... here';s my situation:


I will be flying a small quadcopter (<7kg) with a camera attached, and intend to take photos/videos of private land/buildings (this is for taking images of buildings as part of pre-demolition waste surveys). This will always be on private land where the owner has granted permission, usually on industrial sites. One example coming up includes a site which is next to an active railway...


Does anyone have any ideas? Thanks in advance!

As this is obviously a commercial task you would need to have appropriate qualifications for commercial work and associated insurance.

I would assume that any course you have completed would have taken you through the requirements for when the CAA need to be notified so why not consult your notes.

If you haven';t completed the whole commercial piloting business then you shouldn';t be doing the flying regardless of notifying the CAA

[asomaro]

Jumpy,

Great post mate - I hope you don';t mind but I';ve copied and posted this in other places (forums, twitter and facebook) with reference to this original post by you! I think as many people as possible should see it.

Cheers,

[Mslater]

What I don';t get is, without a camera you can fly a machine that weighs up to 20Kg, with a camera it';s only 7Kg without FPV, that';s BS, what difference does a camera make.... Bugger all that';s what.

Sorry for the rant.

I though (although could be wrong) that hobby with camera is up to 20KG.   The 7Kg limit is to do with commercial flights.   I';m checking all my CAA notifications now to be sure.

[ched]

Just looked at the top image. The rules seem very strange. i.e. I can fly quad less 7kg at any height in controlled air space as long as no camera?
Is that correct?
I live about 1 mile away from Blackpool airport and the beach is 50 meters away. I would love to just walk down end of road and onto beach and fly but I thought I was not allowed as it is controlled air space (even though Blackpool Airport is not operating as a passenger airport any more).
Any idea where I can find this info on an official source so I can carry a copy with me in case anyone asks?

Cheers

[Jumpy07]

https://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=1416&pageid=8153

You are asking for trouble flying near an airport ..   as I said.. rules and regs are might confusing and inconsistent..

[ched]

https://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=1416&pageid=8153
You are asking for trouble flying near an airport ..   as I said.. rules and regs are might confusing and inconsistent..

Cheers. I was thinking surely it can';t be allowed. Little quote from front page of your link:
';Air traffic control permission is not required for model aircraft below 7 kg. However, the relevant air traffic control should be consulted at least 28 days prior to the event';

I would say that means that you really need permission from ATC.
Thanks.

[Jumpy07]

Event is in reference to a club gathering etc.. in the context.. at least that';s the way I read it..

[ched]

Cheers. I did send an email to Air Traffic Control at Blackpool airport yesterday asking for clarification and quoting both the CAA link and the above para. Not had a reply yet but they will be a bit busy as it';s their first passenger flights since reopening.
I will post the reply if I get one.

[Jumpy07]

Don';t expect them to be up to speed by the way..   I have had a few interesting conversations with local ATC.. and have had to point them at the relevant ANO';s etc :-)

[ched]

Just had a reply from Blackpool ATC. They have said to avoid a certain area (not full controlled airspace zone) and to give them a courtesy call before I fly.

So that is great news. I only have to give them a call to check and 10 mins later I can be on the beach at the end of the road flying. 

[dp106]

This is great, makes it clear and easy to understand 

How about something similar on the other aspects of FPV Legality, frequencies and power we';re allowed for video and control for example?

Been doing some research this morning and unless I';m wrong:

Video
1.3 - It seems to be legal for ground based fpv (only)?  Unsure on power restriction.
2.4 - Legal but restricted to 10mw power
5.8 - Legal but restricted to 25mw

Contol
2.4 - Legal, not sure on power restriction
UHF - Legal on 459mhz band, limited to 100mw


This has mostly been gleaned from:  www.fpvuk.org

[RPAS]

Hello.
Please excuse this post if it appears vague, however I wish to ensure that I do not breech the terms and conditions of forum use.

I am a Remotely Piloted Aircraft Systems (RPAS) Specialist for National Air Traffic Services (NATS). Most of you may be aware that NATS is responsible for the safe and efficient provision of Air Traffic Control throughout the UK, and is regarded by many as world leaders within this domain.

NATS is embracing the rapidly growing ';domain'; of RPAS operations, and we are keen to progress towards the safe integration of operations with other airspace users. Much of the context within this thread is around regulatory confusion, and as a certified RPAS operator I can sympathise.

NATS is therefore pleased to announce the launch of our CAA approved RPAS course which will be delivered in Scotland and England. We equip independent operators and organisations with the required knowledge, and examine flight capabilities expected to obtain ';CAA Permissions/Exemptions for Aerial Work';.

It would be unfair for me to stipulate more detail within this thread. However as this forum, its administrators and all aviation professionals will be keen to work together and ensure compliance and awareness, I encourage you to contact us at, RPAS@nats.co.uk , if the above course may be of interest to you.

It is essential that as a community we maintain a stringent and professional approach to support growth. May I take this opportunity to commend all those that participate and view these threads to ensure a uniform step forward.

Kind regards

William Brown

[Hands0n]

Helo William, and welcome to the forum.  Firstly may I thank you for taking the time out to register and post the above.  It makes for interesting reading.

There will be forum members, established and yet to come, who will indeed have an interest in operating their aircraft in a professional capacity.  The more routes to gaining the all essential PFAW for any such use.  Others may wish to know of the NATS route for academic purposes of course.

Is there any on-line information regarding the course as provided by NATS?  Perhaps this actual post and that information would make for its own thread in an appropriate part of the forum such that the information doesn';t get lost in time. 

As mostly hobbyists (we';ll likely all start that way) we are absolutely keen to ensure the hobby survives in a sustainable manner and the general anticipation is that the CAA and UK Government will move to develop our own rules in a sane and proportional manner (unlike the USA for instance).  And in doing so it will engender development and growth of the hobby, technology and business opportunities going forward.

Nice to see NATS get involved at the educational level