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Gaza07:
23 Aug 2019 19:26:42
I agree it does look a lot better for some reasom SMF shorten any recent posts display  :rolleyes:
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23 Aug 2019 10:29:15
Nice! Looks loads better.  :beer2:
Gaza07:
22 Aug 2019 22:47:32
Sorted mate  ~~
Andy7:
22 Aug 2019 10:27:36
Sure. But basically, all the subjects are getting cut off.
Gaza07:
21 Aug 2019 18:14:54
Can you pm me a screen shot of what you mean
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Gaza - can you make the subject line section in the forum topic list wider? It's cutting off the subject field really short.
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19 Aug 2019 09:14:20
Good for you!  ~~
DarkButterfly:
18 Aug 2019 19:13:57
Had another negative encounter, it's been a few years since the last one, just an uneducated ******, going on about drones being illegal yada yada yada.    :-/
Still that didn't spoil my flying time, had an absolute blast  ~~
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07 Aug 2019 19:52:01
ooooh mrs jones  :D
hoverfly:
30 Jul 2019 15:26:34
D.B. you tightwad.. :cool:
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3d - Printworx

Printing 3d Forum

First quad, hardware choice advise

Started by kaivalagi, Sunday,January 06, 2013, 19:23:54

Previous topic - Next topic

kaivalagi

Sunday,January 06, 2013, 19:23:54 Last Edit: Sunday,January 06, 2013, 19:35:21 by kaivalagi
Hi All, I mentioned the following in my hello post but I figured I should ask in the appropriate place...

I am currently waiting for Hobbyking to send me my new transmitter and module/receiver before I embark on building my first quad. I';ve so far ordered a 9XR, FrSky module and reciever, KK 2.0 controller board / programmer board etc and a whole bunch of odds and sods but still have the frame, motors and ESCs to cover off.

I currently plan on going for a basic 450 DFIish type setup with ~1000kv motors and 3S packs, however later on I';ll no doubt want to go with FPV and GPS (ArduFlyer based rather than Naza I think).

Any help on a first setup that would go someway towards providing parts for future better / FPV based setups would be appreciated! I was thinking later it will likely be either hexcopter or TBS discovery / spider style setup once I establish some flying skills with a basic style quad and know what I prefer...

For example, future proofing in mind:

  • Would I be best going with a 3S or a 4S setup to begin with?

  • I am guessing I need lower rated motors than 1000KV for a 4S setup?

  • Any good sites giving RPM / prop size/pitch combination guidance? Or is it just a case of trial and error? I can appreciate there are lots of factors involved...



Any advice / insight would be appreciated, cheers guys

kaivalagi

Sunday,January 06, 2013, 20:07:52 #1 Last Edit: Sunday,January 06, 2013, 20:22:08 by kaivalagi
So to elaborate a little more, I';ve got some 30A ESCs and motors ear marked which handle 4S...just wondering if I ought to buy 3S packs at all and not just jump into 4S straight away?

I wouldn';t want to waste a fair few quid on 3S Lipos when I should just buy 4S and be covered for the longer term....

Will I need a regulator or something in between a 4S pack and the KK 2.0 controller? How is are the voltages normally managed in a quad running with 4 cells or more?

teslahed

4 cells gives more lifting power and more speed (and more cost) I wouldn';t suggest starting with 4 cells unless you are feeling particularly confident. Most people start with 3 cell setups. 4 cells becomes necessary when you have a heavier quadcopter lifting more weight without wanting to lose performance. You would be better of flying a lighter quadcopter to start with.
One circlip short of a quadcopter.
 1 lobe short of an antenna.

kaivalagi

Thanks for the tips

Yeah, I';m not that confident, never flown RC before. I am just trying to buy gear that will do the long term where possible. I assume even if I wanted to add FPV / camera / APM to a quad later I could still get by with a 3S setup? There would still be enough lift with big enough props and all that gear?

On the basis that as I am going with a SM450 clone (rctimer) to begin with I';ll stick with 3S even if it is for the shorter term. I just now need to figure out what the max dimensions of a battery ought to be to fit between bottom and top plate. I have my eye on some 5000MAh 3S turnigy lipos I can get from the UK hobbyking store but am unsure, they don';t weigh much more than a 2200/3000MAh battery so I figure it would do a good thing to have more duration of flight.

I figure on getting some Turnigy SK3 980kv motors and Hobby King F-30A UBEC ESCs. The ESC is flashable with SimonK firmware from what I can tell in that handy spreadsheet and both handle 4 cell voltages too  :smiley:

Once some of this gear starts turning up I';ll get a thread started in the quad section, I would have done it already but I know I am going to have atleast 4 weeks wait for the 9XR to be shipped...

Gaza07

I use 3s and have only ever used 3s up to now, I have 2200mah and 3000mah packs which seem more than enough for a 450 size quad  ~~
If you make it to heavy it just wontfly very well  :hmm:

kaivalagi

Monday,January 07, 2013, 08:24:55 #5 Last Edit: Monday,January 07, 2013, 08:37:38 by kaivalagi
Are constant 20C batteries going to be enough (30C burst)? I just see an array of high discharge rated batteries and have to think these lower rated ones aren';t gonna do the job....is 20C more than ample for a smallish quad with camera and video rx/tx? Or for an FPV setup would you expect to run higher rated ones? Just trying to think through the longer term usage, I might as well have an array of batteries that will do it all (so long as the price isn';t stupidly high)

edit: read the bit at the top on batteries, the motors I am looking at are rated at max 10A draw, so I need a battery that can give 40C at full wack...found a fairly good price on 2650MAh 25-50C rated battery would would do the job nicely right?

teslahed

Quoteedit: read the bit at the top on batteries, the motors I am looking at are rated at max 10A draw, so I need a battery that can give 40C at full wack...found a fairly good price on 2650MAh 25-50C rated battery would would do the job nicely right?


That';s exactly right - glad to know it';s come in useful already :smiley: You';ll be hovering around half power most of the time so 25C with a burst rating of 50C on a decent quality 2650mAh sized battery should do the job for you

I personally like the turnigy nanotech batteries as they seem to be easily available from hobbykings UK warehouse, relatively cheap, and they have nice high C ratings. Exactly how much you can trust the given C ratings is open to debate (and may benefit from some rigorous testing) so if you get some that are a bit better than you need you should be pretty safe. 25-50C is a good standard for the average 450 quadcopter with a battery of that size and you shouldn';t run into any problems. I have a couple of these for a slightly smaller quadcopter;

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__26660__Turnigy_nano_tech_2200mah_3S_45_90C_Lipo_Pack_UK_Warehouse_.html

which have served me well for over 6 months now including on very cold days. Given the amount of flying i do they are probably close to getting retired though - even rechargeables don';t last for ever.

If you are looking at;

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__32243__Turnigy_nano_tech_2650mah_3S_25_50C_Lipo_Pack_UK_Warehouse_.html

I bet you';ll be fine.


One circlip short of a quadcopter.
 1 lobe short of an antenna.

kaivalagi

Nice one thanks, and yep the 2650 nano tech from HK is the one I was looking at, bargain price for what it is really...

If I were to go for an FPV setup on a 450 or TBS discovery type thing I assume this type of battery would still do the job?

If I were to go for a hex then I guess I could use 2 of them in parallel?


teslahed

Yeah I expect they would be fine for both those uses.
One circlip short of a quadcopter.
 1 lobe short of an antenna.

QuadBod

Quote from: kaivalagi on Monday,January 07, 2013, 08:24:55
Are constant 20C batteries going to be enough (30C burst)?
[...]
edit: read the bit at the top on batteries, the motors I am looking at are rated at max 10A draw, so I need a battery that can give 40C at full wack...


Hang on though, if you multiply 20C x 3A for a 3000mAH LiPo, that';s 60A constant, which is more than enough for your 4 x 10A motors...

kaivalagi

Quote from: QuadGod on Monday,January 07, 2013, 17:38:47
Hang on though, if you multiply 20C x 3A for a 3000mAH LiPo, that';s 60A constant, which is more than enough for your 4 x 10A motors...


Have I read it wrong? 20C max would be more than enough for any situation if this is the case...

Edit: thanks for pointing it out, no need to buy high rated batts at all...

DarrellW

Monday,January 07, 2013, 20:09:18 #11 Last Edit: Tuesday,January 08, 2013, 17:55:46 by DarrellW
I use Gens ace 3S 2200 25C with mine, I have rctimer 2212 1000kv motors (150W) & 30A esc';s and have had no problems; batteries barely warm at end of flight - about the same as when I';ve been using them in my Wot4.
I think..........I think I am........therefore I am.............I think!

teslahed

Quote from: QuadGod on Monday,January 07, 2013, 17:38:47
Hang on though, if you multiply 20C x 3A for a 3000mAH LiPo, that';s 60A constant, which is more than enough for your 4 x 10A motors...


This is correct, technically speaking. I would suggest going with a higher rating than the bare minimum the specification suggests though - because otherwise you';ll find it starts to sag on a cold day, or when the battery starts getting a bit low, or after it';s had a few months or so of heavy use and is starting to get a little ';aged';. Having a bit of extra headroom is always handy.

If you can get higher C ratings without paying extra it';s always worthwhile.

But if you find some good quality 3000mAh batteries rated at (definitely) 20C, then as QuadGod says, they will be capable of providing 20C x 3A = 60amps, which is more than enough for four motors using 10 amps each (40 amps total).

One circlip short of a quadcopter.
 1 lobe short of an antenna.

QuadBod

Monday,January 07, 2013, 21:43:53 #13 Last Edit: Monday,January 07, 2013, 21:51:34 by QuadGod
Quote from: teslahed on Monday,January 07, 2013, 21:27:14
if you find some good quality 3000mAh batteries rated at (definitely) 20C


I recently got one of these: ZIPPY Flightmax 3000mAh 3S1P 20C (UK Warehouse)

Good power to weight ratio (it';s 231g), and under £10. (And there';s currently a buddy code in the usual places for an extra %9 off)

teslahed

Quote from: QuadGod on Monday,January 07, 2013, 21:43:53
I recently got one of these: ZIPPY Flightmax 3000mAh 3S1P 20C (UK Warehouse)

Good power to weight ratio (it';s 231g), and under £10. (And there';s currently a buddy code in the usual places for an extra %9 off)


How do you think those compare to these;

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/%5F%5F32246%5F%5FTurnigy%5Fnano%5Ftech%5F3000mah%5F3S%5F25%5F50C%5FLipo%5FPack%5FUK%5FWarehouse%5F.html

?

The nanotechs have much higher C ratings but if the zippys are as advertised they may be high enough and they are a fair bit cheaper.

I';ve been using smaller 2200mAh nanotechs on my stunt copter just because they seem to work quite well - but I haven';t used any zippys or many other brands so i can';t really compare.
One circlip short of a quadcopter.
 1 lobe short of an antenna.

QuadBod

Quote from: teslahed on Monday,January 07, 2013, 22:24:34
How do you think those compare to these;

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/%5F%5F32246%5F%5FTurnigy%5Fnano%5Ftech%5F3000mah%5F3S%5F25%5F50C%5FLipo%5FPack%5FUK%5FWarehouse%5F.html



I haven';t stressed it yet, but it arrived perfectly balanced, and holds that balance to within about 0.01-0.02V per cell in light testing.

The high discharge rate of the Turnigy, whilst nice to have, is complete overkill for your purpose, and so you';r e not going to get the benefit of the nano-tech chemistry, as you';ll be running the battery "below the curve". And as you say, it';s twice the price.

Personally I';d rather spend the same money on two of the Zippys (and indeed I';ve just ordered a second!)  ~~

rokit5

Friday,January 18, 2013, 21:23:57 #16 Last Edit: Friday,January 18, 2013, 21:45:12 by rokit5
I';m quite new to Qauds but not new to RC. My first quad was a RTF 450 with an AIO FC and the usual running gear. I';ve just started buying parts to built one from scratch and the list so far is:
.RCTimer SK30A ESCs.
.1000Kv 2212 motors.
.1045 props.
.450 frame from my RTF as i swapped the frame over for a 500 Reptile for use with a GoPro at some point.
.KK2.0 FC board.
.3000mAh 3s nano tech lipos.

Having changed my 3S for a 4S a little while ago with advise from the forum folk I wemt back to 3S as the 4S, 1045 prop combination was not a good idea heat wise.

Nano-Tech lipos? I have used cheap lipos, standard Turnagy lipos and Turnagy Nano-Tech lipos. Nano Techs are by far the best. Good running time and should you give it loads of throttle the 50c surge will handle it with some to spare. Probably more than what you need but in my veiw its better to have more than not enough.

2212 motors, my 500 reptile has RCTimer 2212 and asking on the forum the SK30A ESCs and 2212 1000Kv motors seem to be a really good combination.

Props, With the 3S Lipos again i asked and followed advice from the forum and use 8x4.5 to 10x4.5 seems the norm but i i went with 10x4.5 for a little bit more lift.

Frames, the stardard is the f450 or 450 clone (See link below) as if you buy two quite cheaply you have more spares than you can shake a stick at. The 500 reptile (See link below) has a front camera mount that allows the camera to sit to one side with the, GoPro, camera lens in the centre of the frame. Also its counter balanced by the battery that fits on the back.

KK2.0 over my Cruis AIO with V2 GPS. Firstly I don';t use the Cruis AIOs GPS on my Reptile but it came with the RTF and it will come in handy later on when I get the hang of flying. As far as I know the KK2.0 does have the ability for GPS as an add on, Don';t quote me on that, But its a good starting point as a first build, looking around the forum and the internet their by far the easiest to set up and their really user friendly.

I hope this helps and I';m sure I';ve just repeated whats already been said but as a newbee also, having researched and asked silly questions thats the conclusion I came up with and its the combination I';ve gone with.



450 frame:
http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_search_list.dwt&gcat=0&gkey=sm450&image.x=0&image.y=0

500 reptile frame:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110984233251?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
"If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you"

kaivalagi

Thanks Rokit5, I';ve started the usual thread on the build now that all items are here, shipped or about to be, thread is here: http://www.multi-rotor.co.uk/index.php?topic=1147.0

Your parts list ain';t all that different to mine really...I ended up ordering nano tech 2650 3s';s , they were well priced from the UK warehouse. I also ordered 980KV Aerodrive SK3 motors and F-30A ESCs from HK and will flash them at some point with simonk. I will be using a KK 2.0 board...and also got 10x4.5 props coming too...

I';ll be sticking with the 450 clone for the short term until I get the knack of flying a quad, I ordered the SM450 V2 for the main setup and a second V1 to get some spare legs etc. When I feel ready I will be jumping across to a spider board like the reptile / tbs discovery etc and starting the FPV adventure...I am sure by that time there will be even more choice on the market so it';s not worth window shopping as yet...

More details on my parts list on my thread, but it looks like we';re on the same journey, albeit I';ve not traveled the first leg yet :) If you can give me any advice please do, I have done my research but there is always something you miss...