Eachine ea017 upgrades

[Septo]

I was given an ea017 for Xmas and am greatly enjoying flying it but am already looking for additional bits that I will be able to use in the future on more expensive quads.

Essentially I need more batteries and a charger. The charger that came with it only charges one cell and the socket at the battery end has already separated into two parts.

The 2 1S batteries that came with it are fine but 2 isn't enough and I don't know their life expectency. I would choose to go with larger batteries (possibly HV) and modify the holder to suit. I am not convinced by the ph2.0 connectors and would be open to changing them and soldering a suitable fly lead to the board.

I need a charger. My main charger is a Turnigy Accucell 6 which will charge up to 6 cells but does not have LiPo HV setting. I would appreciate a recommendation of how I proceed to get a charger that will work & hopefully charge more than one cell at a time.

As an aside I would like to use a better transmitter but searching tells me that this isn't possible with the 017.

[ched]

@Bad Raven is the expert on e017's he has many of them as he runs an after school club teaching kids techy stuff.
Hopefully he will reply as he buys loads of batteries and charges huge amounts of them.

[Bad Raven]

OK.............

1. Do NOT repeat NOT use HV batteries on this model.  Even if you don't directly damage its electronics, you will more than likely tip the control firmware into juddering (PID loop oversensitivity stagger) until the battery voltage drops or it breaks. (Its not PC software configurable)

2.  I asked where you were located in message to you. That was because its not much good pointing you at UK sources if you are in the US, for example.

3. I'll take some pics of what I do to make the batteries safer and the quad cage fitting easier to use when I can, maybe Sunday, but in principle the batteries I use are on EBay UK and are labelled as 220mAh.  They are the same size in length and width, marginally deeper.

You do not need nor can easily fit physically larger cells.  Seen people use 450mAh 1S by cutting the cage rear off. All this does is unbalance the quad, masks the ducts for less efficiency, and overloads the motors. Can result in even shorter flight times!

If you buy from the sources I do a charger is included, so destroy the old one, and any battery without a proper plug.

There are two tiny retention "nubs" on the battery plug which can be too aggressive in the socket slots. I rub a blunt screwdriver blade to and fro to "soften" the saw tooth nub shape BEFORE first use.

I have original Eachine 150's that are six years old and still used weekly. I have had ones fail (rarely) after a very few cycles.  The supposed 220mAh silver/black label seem quite robust ONCE A SAFETY MOD IS DONE.......... (easy and quick)

[Bad Raven]

Charger (Bought)

The best single cell (1S) charger is the ViFly Whoopstor in its latest variant.

I use an old router wall PSU to power it.

[Septo]

Bad Raven

This is so useful. Thank you.

I am in the UK (Norfolk) but I haven't received a message to the best of my knowledge.

Batteries - I have had a look on ebay and have identified the black & silver batteries which come with a green 6 way charger. They are, as you suggested, the same size as the original battery. Identical packs seem to be available at the same price from several suppliers.

I know about the retention tabs on the plug/socket!!! On first charge I couldn't split the battery from the charger lead which is probably wwhat separated the two parts of the charging lead socket.

I await the photos and especially the safety mod.

Thank you for your reply which has already answered so many questions with more to come.
     

PS What is the motor life? Replacing the motors seems to cost nearly as much as buying a whole new quad.

Edit: One of my 2 OEM batteries has died. The charger doesn't even recognise it is there when connected. The other one is fine and charges perfectly well but getting more batteries has become more urgent.

[Bad Raven]

OK, any concerns I don't have a lot to do with E010 sized batteries     ?



The packs are four per pack and need opening, checking for correct storage voltage, physical OK check, and then mods.

There are basically three acceptable battery "makes", Eachine (red/blue), JJRC (silver/metallic blue), and Makerfire (silver/black).



Going back in history, these were labelled 150mAh.

Later Eachine and JJRC are labelled 200mAh.

Makerfire do not carry that name on them, and are labelled 220mAh.



There are others, ENGPOW is one........avoid all of them!

If you inspect the three cells picture closely you will see striping over the clear yellow taped connections end, this is anti stretch reinforcing tape.

The Makerfire (silver/black) 220mAh do not have this, so the shiny yellow end is NOT HELD WELL ENOUGH. Pull on the wire and it'll likely come off exposing live terminals.  Look closely again at the 220mAh and you will see it looks matt, not shiny. This is because I have stretch fitted some "Blenderm" type tape around the whole length of the battery to hold the yellow end on positively.  Blenderm is a trade name, available at Chemists, but most clones of it are cheaper and work well.

Then look carefully at the 003 pic at the plug of the 220mAh. Either side of the polarisation bar is a tiny nub, saw tooth shape. This enters the slots on the socket, and is so sharp normally that left alone you can pull the socket apart or the plug off the lead! I rub a blunt screwdriver back and fore over these to take away the sharpness, they then work well and do not jam!

After battery mod taping they will be a VERY tight fit in the quad cage, I'll deal with this in another reply.

[Bad Raven]

Mods to E017 Quad

Basically only one to continue LOS flight, cutting the cage bars to allow oversized batteries easier access. It the battery is rocked as its inserted minimally it'll open the tongues and the bat will slide in easier.





I also take the folded end tabs at the back end of the cell that stick out when new and press them at an angle to a surface to fold them away which also eases entry to the cage.

I cut the cage cleanly with X-ACTO model railway track cutters.

If you later on become interested in the mods to allow FPV flying, ask then.

[Bad Raven]

I currently have seven E017s. Six are modded to FPV (pics elsewhere here).

One arrived with damaged packing and proved over sensitive even to a standard 4.20v battery. This caused judder for the first 20-30 seconds till the battery voltage settled. As there's no firmware adjustment, and it was only that, not prop balance, motor shaft bent, etc, etc, I claimed it and another is being sent. 

It's on a plane now, hope its not a 737MAX........ 

You ask re: motor life. Unknown but suggest same as E010, or pretty robust. NOT worth playing, look at the varying price week on week and buy a spare quad or two cheap!

I have changed a very few boys E010 hovercraft motors, but they really do get brutalised, run back to back super hot, rough handled by marshals, etc. (Usually the wires ripped out the back, and changed at my expense, BTW!)

[Septo]

Thank you for all that work. The packaging explains why the Makefire batteries are sold in groups of 4 and each with a charger.

At my age brain pathways take longer to establish than for your youngsters. I have a lot of learning to do before i consider FPV

[Bad Raven]

At my age brain pathways take longer to establish than for you youngsters.

Err, i think I'm older than you, I'm approaching my 76th birthday!    

 

[Septo]

It is always good to know that there are fliers older than me but I meant the youngsters who you encourage.

Batteries ordered.

[ched]

Thank you for all that work. The packaging explains why the Makefire batteries are sold in groups of 4 and each with a charger.

At my age brain pathways take longer to establish than for your youngsters. I have a lot of learning to do before i consider FPV

Personally I would say FPV is easier than line of sight.

[Bad Raven]

Personally I would say FPV is easier than line of sight.

In lots of ways it is, no towards you orientation issues for a start, though an experienced RC fixed wing or helicopter pilot won't have that anyway.

The major issues, having taught maybe 200 plus now, and adults suffer similarly to youth here:-

1. Motion "sickness" disorientation, pretty much always solved by learning sitting down.

2. Height recognition and management, especially at traditional RC flying fields with lots of featureless space. Obviously the E017 helps a LOT here indoors, and is OK for near no wind garden.
Its a shame that the E017 does not have an "off" condition for its height management. 

MY solution to this is to go back to the E010 / JJRC H36.  Same batteries, BTW.

SO, I recommend Septo that you buy one of these, again they are really cheap. You WILL need to extend the sticks, to get a softer  "rate". I can advise with pics if required.

[Septo]

It isn't so much that I think that flying fpv will be more difficult but rather that I still have a lot to learn flying visually. I have set up some gates and I am practicing following a course through them and trying to do so increasingly quickly and through tighter gates. Doing this with one working battery is slow progress.

The other problem with going fpv is that I have no idea what I need nor what I would enjoy using. I have no opportunity to try anything. As an example I know that the Eachine 800d is something of a standard visor but there are at least 3 versions & I haven't done the work to find out which of them I need. I would also like to see & try them, and others, with my spectacles before I purchased anything.

https://uk.banggood.com/search/eachine-800d-goggles.html

I am enjoying flying line of sight (just like I have always done with aircraft) so I it isn't urgent to try something new.

Is there a show/ event/ ? in the UK where you can see/try all this stuff?

[Bad Raven]

I know that the Eachine 800d is something of a standard visor but there are at least 3 versions & I haven't done the work to find out which of them I need. I would also like to see & try them, and others, with my spectacles before I purchased anything.

https://uk.banggood.com/search/eachine-800d-goggles.html

Is there a show/ event/ ? in the UK where you can see/try all this stuff?

Basically, no, there's not a try and buy or even a comparitive see and buy. The market is too small to support that use of saleable product, esp with the plethora of £500 plus HD types all vying for small pickings. YouTube reviews plus user videos, but many are posted from GoPro's so not what the pilot sees. Generally, with Analogue, if you see OSD data on screen, its from the pilots video feed.

The 800 siuation is easy (Ha Ha!). The 800 is too basic and low res, forget. The 800D has higher res, plus a removable screen unit, which is VERY useful when bench testing or if you fly indoors and don't want to shutter yourself off.  The DM has even higher res and is large enough to accept some glasses, which means more weight, and the screen is not removable.

However, while I wear glasses for driving, I don't need them with my EV200D Goggles, my DJI V2, or my HDZero goggles, as the design settings and adjustments included are sufficient for me.


What you see in this video, even if you set YouTube to 4k for best replay, is lower quality than I see in the DJI V2 HD headset.

https://youtu.be/oSkFlnViBms

Obviouswly Analogue is lower standard, which you'll find if you hunt back through the "did you fly today"and other threads.

Have fun.

[Bad Raven]

This is a tiny Analogue quad, using a CADDX ANT camera:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdCKrO36Zcg

And going way back, here's a bog std LDARC TINY analogue quad around my garden. Kill the sound, its just noise!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDb2v0Z27zk

[Septo]

Good job that I said that I wasn't in a hurry.

I looked at the three videos and it is clear which qualty I would want but it is a long way from a £15 quad to one including a £500+ headset.

You've raised something that I hadn't considered with the goggles. My eyes are +2.25 and +3.00 which might well be within the range of the goggles. I can certainly adjust my camera viewfinder to cope without glasses.

[Septo]

JJRC H36 ordered as spare and as suggested.

I know that the tops will pull off the transmitter control sticks but what is the best way to lengthen the sticks?

[Bad Raven]

I started out using 3D printed extensions or 3D printed replacements. However in recent times I have settled on 3mm threaded nylon hex posts (standoffs). Easy to choose length and therefore "rate", and after choosing, I have had no boy or fellow pilot change that length.

 

[Bad Raven]

I looked at the three videos and it is clear which quality I would want but it is a long way from a £15 quad to one including a £500+ headset.

Analogue will never be HD, but can be quite acceptable, and as you say is a world away cheaper.

The two analogue videos I linked were not examples of the best, just ones I had to hand already uploaded.  MOST outdoor analogue videos posted by people don't use the video transmission at all, they use a GoPro or Mobius. No good for 65mm quads.

One of my club boys had a EMax Tinyhawk III combo set for Christmas. Video standard is quite acceptable, even in the school building.

Which leads me to mention.......... Multi Pathing.

School is a metal frame structure with lots of signal reflective surfaces.  The video signal hits these and bounces around before getting to the receiver. That means its taken longer than the direct route, and complicates the reception quality. The ability of the receiver to isolate the best signal is everything. Inevitably some are better than others in doing this.

There is a tendency amongst the uninformed to choose the highest VTX output power possible. This is usually WRONG and counter productive, as all it does is to flood more miss-timed signals at the receiver and give a harder task to show the best!! Higher power also means higher current draw and shorter flights.

The legal max OUTDOOR output power is 25mW, and this is by far the best for indoor operation. Race Meeting organisers usually insist on it, and its not just to be "legal".

The recent HD Tiny Whoops like the Mobula6 HDZero are at the current technology limit for flight duration, and the Mobula6 Analogue is quite acceptable visually while offering a clear minute plus longer flight time.

I get good transmission at 25W through my 1935 house, and that has solid brick interior walls to dull signal strength.

[Bad Raven]

Example Analogue Outdoors (more recent gear but still several years old.


https://youtu.be/_xlCpGmfloQ

[Bad Raven]

Example of Analog 65mm Tiny Whoop indoors.

https://youtu.be/Sh4i45uvLdI

[Septo]

Thank you for those and the tip that most posted videos us a GoPro etc.

Being brutal the Analog 65mm Whoop looks entirely reasonable & I could enjoy flying it but the analogue outdoors has no appeal at all.

I am not sure whether the quality of what I see on the video is what I would see with a visor.

Edit: My 8 batteries have arrived & make a big differenc to flying time. Individually the batteries, despite being 220mah v the 150msh of the originals seem to give me about the same flying time - 6 to 7 mins.

[Bad Raven]

For the school club I found some cheap Hula Hoops that were translucent plastic that could be lit from the inside by really cheap battery box powered LED strings. I bought the largest size hoop, then cut and reshaped and  joined some to make smaller sizes.  The bases are weighted square drainpipe joins, designed to fall over if hit hard. There are only two in the video, and they are not lit to make it harder to spot.

Usually the DVR performance is slightly inferior to what you see in goggles/headsets. Then YouTube's compression algorithm does its worst!  A way round this (not used in any of the ones I have posted) is to use a video editor to fool YT into thinking the video being uploaded is 4k

As a guide if there is no OSD data on screen its more likely come from a separate HD camera. The general exception to this is DJI, where the OSD has to be turned on and anyway the DJI generated default data isn't that well presented or useful. (The firmware has been hacked to get more, search WTFOS for more if interested!) 

Battery capacity labelling is a major lie area, and even more so is the max discharge rate (C). They make it up to get sales!  One of the laughs there a while back was a certain Chinese bg sales house name, where their HD range was actually a bigger capacity!  So the 2200mAh std compared to the 2200mAh Heavy Duty which was actually a 2700mAh relabelled (and the cheeky B's were asking more money!!!!!!)