Kinetic aerial Air-Ro number 2

[Cheredanine]

Edit: for beginners to the hobby, I have done a build guide for electric wingman on this one, it is linked lower down in the thread, contains wiring diagrams and how to configure

I am sooo impressed with my Air-Ro I built another one.
This time having talked to some racers, I am upgrading the motors to t-motor F20ii 1408 3750kv. These are allegedly blingly good but have a tendency to blow kisscc which are 16amo escs, so wary of taking out the raceflight spark which are rated to 18 amp I am changing the stack

Components:
Frame :kinetic aerial Air-Ro
https://www.electricwingman.com/air-ro-stretched-racing-frame-3mm
(£39.95)
Filed the edges, comes with cam mounts for full sized, mini and micro fpv cams

Flight stack: hglrc xjb f428 with vtx:
https://www.electricwingman.com/hglrc-xjb-f428-tx20-flight-controller-stack
(£62.50)
28amp blheli s escs, f4 flight controller with bf osd, vtx and antenna. Only problem is m2 mounts, using metal m2x6 cap head screws and washers so I can clamp it down tight

Motors: t-motor F20ii 1408 3759kv:
https://www.electricwingman.com/t-motor-f20ii-3750kv
(£13.95 each, £55.80 total)

Camera: swift micro
https://www.electricwingman.com/runcam-micro-swift-21
(£24.95)

Reciever: Frsky xm+
https://www.electricwingman.com/frsky-xm-plus-receiver
(£12.50)

Antenna: demon vee antenna
https://www.quadcopters.co.uk/fpv-antennas-58ghz/demonrc-vee-antenna-ufl58ghz
(£7.95)

Other sundry items:
25v 470uf low esr capacitor
Forevertube over-the-standoff antenna mounts
Xt30 connectors
Hq4x4.3x3v1s props
Normally use tattu 4s 650mah lipos but this may be light enough to run 850mah

I will maiden and post piccis tomorrow or over the weekend, depending on weather

[atomiclama]

Antenna: demon vee antenna
https://www.quadcopters.co.uk/fpv-antennas-58ghz/demonrc-vee-antenna-ufl58ghz
(£7.95)

That looks neat, how does it perform?

[Cheredanine]

That looks neat, how does it perform?

I will let you know mate, works fine on the bench with the Rx 3 feet away but not much of a test I am afraid.

I have used a standard whip (on my 5 inch sub250) and the tbs cloverleaf (on my previous air ro) they both had all the range I needed, but the cloverleaf was miles better in environments with multipathing, however it looks like it will get deformed in a crash - although hasn';t yet) this is hopefully a happy medium, I will be using a maneacerc bandecoot antenna on the goggles

[Cheredanine]

Ok built, test hovered and managed to get half a pack in at lunch time (small window and dog walkers turned up )

Observations:
Flies better than the other air-ro, may be the motors, may be bf and its dynamic filter pixie dust but faster and smoother.

The hglrc stack is nice, works well, soldering wasn';t as difficult as you may think except the power pads which I suplimented by winding wire round them.

Gutted I have to work this evening, otherwise would get some flight footage.

Orange props now arrived but tbh I like it with the purple ones
Piccis:

[gibbiem]

Looks good this quad, well within my budget too for my first build. The flight stack you used, says it has a 4-in1 ESC. Does this mean you don';t need an ESC per motor?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[ched]

Looks good this quad, well within my budget too for my first build. The flight stack you used, says it has a 4-in1 ESC. Does this mean you don';t need an ESC per motor?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

4 esc on 1 pcb. So no need for 4 separate esc BUT if 1 esc is damaged you need to replace the whole pcb!

[gibbiem]

4 esc on 1 pcb. So no need for 4 separate esc BUT if 1 esc is damaged you need to replace the whole pcb!

Ah right, might be better sticking to 4 individual esc as a noob?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[ched]

Ah right, might be better sticking to 4 individual esc as a noob?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Cheredanine';s build was a sub 250gms build to sort of see how easy it was and what sort of performance he got. So the components he choose were partly down to weight.

Not sure if you are aware but there is talk of legislation coming in requiring ';drones'; over 250gms (inc battery) to be registered and pilots to pass an online test.

So using 4 esc will probably be a little heavier and may have pushed his build over the magic 250gms. Ese these days are fairly reliable and if they are mounted in ';the stack'; are relatively safe from impact damage. Ones mounted on the arms have been damaged by prop strikes. So always a balancing act.

[Cheredanine]

Edit, started writing this then got distracted and ended up cooking tea, ched has answered but posted anyway, it is an easy build and can be set up for all sorts of flying.
The 4in1 esc thing, well these are 28amp escs, well above the amps the lipo can provide, provided you are reasonably accurate with soldering you are unlikely to have any problems


Yes mate, that flight stack has the escs, the flight controller and the video transmitter. All the stuff you need is up there.
I am writing a build guide including a wiring diagram

I also did a lot of flight testing today including 3s 650mah and 3s 850mah. I would say that on 3s it is ideal for acro or general use, for a beginner that would be the lipos I would suggest.

Don';t miss the xt30 connectors, I actually bought this sort of thing and just cut the wires to length:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/XT30-to-Banana-Plug-4mm-Battery-LIPO-Charger-Cable-Charge-Lead-Pigtail-UK-Seller-/232413183266?epid=2176085641&hash=item361ce7bd22:g:hCsAAOSwgQRZbKXK

With a 3s 850mah AUW is 237grams and that is without shortening the lipo lead, which is very long on that lipo

With 3s 650mah AUW is 207grams

Will be posting some vids soon

[Hozza]

Definitely interested in how that antenna performs, what sort of performance you getting out of it on 4S?

Paul

[Cheredanine]

I would put it mid way between a standard ufl dipole and a ufl cloverleaf mate
Like the dipole it struggles to get penetration behind objects, but it performs slightly better in changes of aspect

[Cheredanine]

And a demo video of flight, first half is 3 cell, second half is 4 cell
https://youtu.be/y9oRxaTjrJk

[Hozza]

EW have sold another setup 

[hoverfly]

I';m sure there are earthworks in that field... ::)

[Cheredanine]

Nah mate it is just where the props have grazed the ground

Builders guide document for new people really:
https://www.electricwingman.com/img/cd/air-ro_builders_guide.pdf

[ched]

Nah mate it is just where the props have grazed the ground

Builders guide document for new people really:
https://www.electricwingman.com/img/cd/air-ro_builders_guide.pdf

Just had a quick flight through guide, looks good. Nice.

[hoverfly]

Very tempting, but  the smallest frame I';ve  flown is 250 and orientation has been a problem some times... Still   i need another frame for Kakute #2, good enough excuse.. ::)

[Hozza]

Nice guide Adam.

Had been looking at the Air-ro, even chatted to Chris at kinetic aerial about shipping to the UK, but then I was EW were selling it after reading this topic I just couldn';t resist.

Just not sure my old eyes are going to enjoy it when I';m soldering on that stack from HLGRC.

So basically I';m copying your build with a couple of subtle changes.

Thanks for helping me spend my money 

Paul

[Cheredanine]

Ty mate,
I was concerned about hglrc but the fact it hasn';t got a whopping pdb there means the heat doesn';t get dragged away from the pads, it was very easy to solder. But it takes full sized pretty well too :)

The tmotor F20ii are by far the best motor for 4 inch though, whatever you do, use them

[hoverfly]

Still resisting.....but only just, not sure about the frame.The motor set looks the dogs.

[Cheredanine]

i looked at a fair few 4 inch frames, 40grams is about the ideal weight, the CMW superlight 4R was the major competitor to this one, the superlight is twice the price, it is about three grams lighter due to 2.5mm base plate instead off 3mm on the Air-Ro, but they then give you 4mm arm braces that kick the weight back up, presumably because 2.5mm is a little too thin.

The motors are unquestionably the biz. Definatley the best for 4 inch by a long way

If I had to get rid of all my quads but one then this would be the one I kept

[hoverfly]

Thankfully my pathetic wimp will gave in,  gone for the frame ,motors ,props , and 20Amp little bees.  For F/C  it';s getting a
Kakute aio.  as the performance is the best i';ve  come across.  The F.P.V. kit will have to wait  until  i get the feel of the thing l.o.s. ....

[atomiclama]

until  i get the feel of the thing l.o.s. ....

Hope your eye sight is good and reactions are fast, tis going to be fast 

[hoverfly]

Hope your eye sight is good and reactions are fast, tis going to be fast 

That was my main worry with such a small frame, going for 3 cell to start with.. Proof of the pudding will be in the crashes.. If it all goes pear shaped it will look good hanging on the wall. ::)

[Cheredanine]

It works pretty well on 3s
I would suggest you may want to put in a custom motor mix if flying Los on an asymmetrical frame (e.g. A stretched x)

This morning I got up early and flew a load of lipos through this and the shrike I just built

The shrike is increadibly smooth and a good racing quad, it flies very well

This thing can match it in all respects but has better agility when it comes to changing direction, it felt like it had slightly better top end too, camera angle and lense fov may of course be a contributing factor in that but I did my best to counter that by pointing the shrike so almost all I could see was grass and maxing the throttle, this thing still felt faster

Also caught a branch going under a tree at high speed, cartwheeled about 50 ft. No damage.
This is unquestionably the best quad I have, on 3s it is fine for beginners or acro, on 4s, it just out performs everything else I have built

[hoverfly]

Sitting here staring out the window waiting for postie....
While looking for something else a found a vtx in a box marked spare cables,
So it might go fpv  at first build, as it doesn';t have to be used.
I looked at similar setups on Youtube and  as a mate also watching said        " that';s  going like snot off a stick you are screwed"" Its great to have friends
that have confidence in you..(he ain';t so clever he pooped his pants when I made him fly a wing, I had it buddy boxed and took it off him just as it was going in)

Update postie delivered, so i';m  now sitting  slobbering  over the kit... ::)



The frame is a lot stronger than i expected, dare i say unbustable.

[hoverfly]

It works pretty well on 3s
I would suggest you may want to put in a custome motor mix if flying Los on an asymmetrical frame (e.g. A stretched x)

Thanks for that wouldn';t of thought of it..

[Cheredanine]

:) get it built, get it built!!!!

I found flying horizon mode with asymmetrical frames (typically my drone wolf, which is a short x without putting cusom motor mixes it has a preference for rotation in a specific axis (from memory with the dronewolf it is roll, I would expect it to be the other axis - pitch - on a stretch x) so if I time flips badly or just rely on horizon mode to level me out, it sometimes ends up facing the wrong direction. A custom motor mix should sort that out

(Only applicable to Los in horizon)

[Hozza]

Mine had it';s maiden yesterday, seriously had to drop the P and D terms, still needs tuning but at least it sounds better but fly really nice a lot more snappy in the turns than I was expecting. Also flew it inside (5 a side pitch) on 2S 1000mah 

[hoverfly]

I have started the build today , Camera on order ,should arrive tomorrow. Going to fly on 3cell junk box batts until i can source some decent ones,most places out of stock or stupid prices.. Can';t wait to see how the motors perform,i just hope they live up to their spec...