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Author Topic: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build  (Read 16292 times)

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Offline Cheredanine

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #180 on: January 12, 2017, 09:10:15 »
So with regards to speeds, the faster the gyro runs, the more accurate it becomes, the nyqist limit is half the actual speed, so at 4khz, you reliably track anything 2khz or lower.

Running 8khz will reliably track 4khz or lower.
To be fair most stuff on a quad happens below 1khz.

The other advantage in running the gyro faster is it incurs less latency.


With regards to the PID loops, suggest you try it, personnaly I can't feel any difference in flight above 2 or 2.6khz and I have tested up to 32khz gyro 16khz pid. I believe Boris also feels there is no benefit above about 2khz, there is, of course, the placebo effect but my thoughts are that obviously micro circuitry can handle that sort of speed changes but the motors in the end are mechanical

So try 8khz/2khz would be my advice, I doubt you will tell any difference but the gyro will be more accurate and quicker which will help the fc and remove aliasing.

Offline Revs

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #181 on: January 12, 2017, 09:26:38 »
As I said at 8k the looptime start fluctuating more, not sure how detrimental that is. I'll do a comparison between 8/2 and 4/2, I've always been skeptical as to whether these crazy refresh rates help. KISS (when it works) flies superbly at under 1khz.

Cheers for your input ;)

Offline atomiclama

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #182 on: January 12, 2017, 09:54:31 »
Well it's obvious init, faster numbers means faster quad  ::)

Seriously 8kHz gyro as that is what the gyro HW runs at. PID loop at 1 or 2kHz you may notice a difference, I can't, apart from it needs a different tune.

Oh and use Dshot if you can, did notice an improvement there.

Wasdale X, Ow that hurt

Offline Revs

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #183 on: January 12, 2017, 10:19:02 »
Oh and use Dshot if you can, did notice an improvement there.

These new ESCs, like many others, require a HW mod to get D-shot working. Plus I need to read up. Meh, as soon as you think you've finished a build something comes along that means you have to take it apart again!  :banghead:

I'd like to get it tuned as it is, so that if/when I do go for it I'll have a basis for comparison. It'll happen before the nicer weather arrives  :smiley:
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 10:30:50 by Revs »

Offline Cheredanine

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #184 on: January 12, 2017, 10:23:29 »
Tip for the day, update blheki before you do the mod
(Mod is pretty simple. Worked first time for me)

Offline Revs

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #185 on: January 12, 2017, 10:32:38 »
Tip for the day, update blheki before you do the mod
(Mod is pretty simple. Worked first time for me)

Once the mod is done, will MS still work?

Also, I have 16.6 on them now. Will they require flashing again to enable D-shot? Or do I just do the mod and enable D-shot in bF?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 10:36:33 by Revs »

Offline Paul01

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #186 on: January 12, 2017, 11:06:13 »
Once the mod is done, will MS still work?

Also, I have 16.6 on them now. Will they require flashing again to enable D-shot? Or do I just do the mod and enable D-shot in bF?

It will with some ESC's, it depends how noisy electrically your quad is. I don't think you can break anything by trying as all you are doing is removing filtering on the signal line.
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Offline Cheredanine

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #187 on: January 12, 2017, 12:09:24 »
The only physical part of the mod is to solder one esc signal wire to another pad, it is pretty simple to back out.
Not sure if ms will work but pretty confident you will get it working, took me less than 10 mins

Offline Revs

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #188 on: January 12, 2017, 12:24:54 »
The only physical part of the mod is to solder one esc signal wire to another pad, it is pretty simple to back out.
Not sure if ms will work but pretty confident you will get it working, took me less than 10 mins

According to this there are a couple of bits to remove/bridge, but mine are the v1.1 and I can't find anything that says what the difference is. Mine still have the cap and resistor shown. I might email DALRC.

Offline Cheredanine

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #189 on: January 12, 2017, 13:00:35 »
lol I was talking about the cyclone, it doesn't have a DNA channel for all 4 motors.

Here mate, this is the best authority for dshot:
https://github.com/betaflight/betaflight/wiki/DSHOT%20ESC%20Protocol

Offline Revs

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #190 on: January 12, 2017, 13:33:36 »
Wuh? DNA channel? Sod this, I'm gonna leave it. This sound like something I don't have a patience for at the mo. Cheers though.

Offline Revs

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #191 on: January 12, 2017, 14:22:47 »
Ah, you mean DMA :laugh:

Offline Cheredanine

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #192 on: January 12, 2017, 14:38:35 »
Predictive text

Offline Revs

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #193 on: January 12, 2017, 15:23:46 »
OK I think I've got my head around this now, it's not as complicated as I was thinking. So just to confirm...

- Modify the ESCs and install the latest betaflight (no other settings need altering in BLHsuite)
- Run a wire from the PPM input to motor output 1 on the FC, but leave the existing connections from the FC to the ESCs the same
- Install bF 3.1 and do the suggested CLI stuff, select D-shot protocol and adjust for correct idle speed

Have I missed anything out?

Offline Cheredanine

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #194 on: January 12, 2017, 15:37:58 »
Re the second point, I just desoldered the signal lead from motor pad 1 and soldered to the ppm pad, then ran the resource commands,

Offline Revs

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #195 on: January 13, 2017, 08:40:39 »
Now running Dshot600 ::) The FC mod was easy and the first 3 ESCs went smoothly, but that last one.. wow we just could not get the solder to bridge those little pads for love nor money. We got it eventually but after an hour of prodding it with an iron it didn't work, so I modded and fitted the spare without issue.

Offline Elmattbo

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #196 on: January 13, 2017, 10:58:53 »
Nicely done. It takes a steady hand to unwrap £60 of esc's and then immediately start poking around on the board before you even flown them! I've been pleased with dshot. I've only tried dshot300 and everything seems ok so I'm staying at that for now. There's a more noticeable jump between oneshot and multishot in terms of handling but cleaner, digital signal seems the way to go for me.
It's amazing how far this technology has moved in the 18 months or so I've been involved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline Revs

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #197 on: January 13, 2017, 11:38:53 »
Tell me about it :laugh: You blink and you've missed several versions of bF and ESC go digital!

Offline Cheredanine

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #198 on: January 13, 2017, 11:56:36 »
Found it depends on the board layout and size of cap as to how awquard it is to convert to dshot, some it on close to 30escs now from different manufacturers, in some it is trivial, on others it is very difficult.

Agree the step to blheli_s was more of a marked difference. What a dshot gives is consistency, on som quads it makes a big difference, on other not so much, I assume this is because on some quads the components are generating enough jitter for the signal perceived by the esc to move up and down a lot for a constant throttle. Particularly in high or rapidly changing power draw situations

Offline atomiclama

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #199 on: January 13, 2017, 12:06:02 »
Motor speed control in the ESC, that's what we need.
Wasdale X, Ow that hurt

Offline Revs

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #200 on: January 13, 2017, 12:14:20 »
I forgot to mention, I set the idle speed to 6.000%. A little fast but this should give good response in airmode situations. At 6% it's giving only 40g of thrust or 10g/motor, so not enough to effect things much.

Found it depends on the board layout and size of cap as to how awquard it is to convert to dshot, some it on close to 30escs now from different manufacturers, in some it is trivial, on others it is very difficult.

Agree the step to blheli_s was more of a marked difference. What a dshot gives is consistency, on som quads it makes a big difference, on other not so much, I assume this is because on some quads the components are generating enough jitter for the signal perceived by the esc to move up and down a lot for a constant throttle. Particularly in high or rapidly changing power draw situations

Yeah these were obviously my first. I was kinda dredding it, looking at the minute cap and resistor on the ESCs but they were dead easy to flick off. But doing the bridge required a very steady hand and a lot of patience. Quite amazed the first 3 went so smoothly TBH.

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #201 on: January 13, 2017, 13:36:34 »
Not sold you need to do the resistor mate, on all mine I have just done the cap, the only escs I was aware you need to remove a res on is the littlebee 20a blheli_s and that was a design flaw which lead to pyrotechnics, although they have now released a new version.

Offline Revs

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #202 on: January 13, 2017, 14:42:55 »
It's the resistor pads that have to be bridged. The cap gets removed and the pads get left open. Don't ask me :whistling: electronics was something I never got in to. The little that I do know I know from this hobby.

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #203 on: January 13, 2017, 14:50:30 »
The resistor is part of the smoothing circuit to get the power correct for the capacitor.
When the cap is removed, they are suggesting removing and jumping the resistor (although you don't need to remove, you can just short it for the same effect)

with the cap missing the resistor is superfluous but shouldn't effect anything if it is left in place

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #204 on: January 13, 2017, 14:57:46 »
The resistor is part of the smoothing circuit to get the power correct for the capacitor.
When the cap is removed, they are suggesting removing and jumping the resistor (although you don't need to remove, you can just short it for the same effect)

with the cap missing the resistor is superfluous but shouldn't effect anything if it is left in place

Beats me mate. I just do what I'm told and hope they're right  :o

Offline Revs

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #205 on: January 15, 2017, 11:31:34 »
Well I'm super chuffed, bF 3.1 with dshot is amazing! For the first time I think bF flies nicer than KISS. I popped out and ran 4 lipos through it yesterday and the motors are as smooth as silk. Still running stock PIDs but that small bounceback from the last vid is gone and the prop-wash is much reduced. Everything seems more effortless and it's a joy to fly, so stable! I was running 4k/2k.

I got some vid but my PC's watercooling is blocked and I can't render it. I post it up later once that's sorted.

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #206 on: January 16, 2017, 01:06:46 »
PC fixed!



*image shamelessly stolen

Offline Cheredanine

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #207 on: January 16, 2017, 01:15:40 »
Looks and sounds pretty damn dialled in mate, good job

Offline Revs

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #208 on: January 16, 2017, 09:15:53 »
Looks and sounds pretty damn dialled in mate, good job

And that's with stock PIDs! Looking forward to getting the chance to tune it :smiley: Just need these days to be a little longer now..

Cheers
« Last Edit: January 16, 2017, 09:32:21 by Revs »

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Re: 5" ImpulseRC Alien Build
« Reply #209 on: January 16, 2017, 10:27:45 »
And that's with stock PIDs! Looking forward to getting the chance to tune it :smiley: Just need these days to be a little longer now..

Cheers
:) stock bf pids suit alien style frames, I find my dronewolf needs the least tuning out of all my quads, just the occasional scaling to the power