Advice thread turns into 680 Pro + E800 build thread

[soundsk]

**UPDATE: I changed the thread';s title because it kind of turned into a build thread, despite not being my original intention**

Hi everyone,

My current setup is an upgraded Phantom - Vision props, Futaba T8J radio, DYS 3-axys gimbal, FPV.

I';m looking to upgrade, despite not being the best time (money-wise), and I';m kind of at a crossroads as to what would my best be.

What I want is buttery smooth video, from my GoPro 4 Black, and eventually from my Sony cameras, the A7 or the A5000.

An F550 frame is cheap, even would allow me the to use the motors from my Phantom, although I would prefer going for a whole new set of motors/ESCs - which brings me to my next problem - best motors and ESCs for it. I read good things about the DJI E series propulsion sets, but they';re as good as they are expensive, but I';m willing to pay, if this option offers more assurance that my video will not be shaky.
If not, then I can go for any other cheaper option that perhaps holds a better quality/cost ratio.

With the long run in mind, I could go for a Tarot 680 Pro frame, I';d have more room to "grow" and expand. The frame itself is more expensive, as is the E600 DJI propulsion, but the same logic applies, if it guarantees smoother video, I';ll take it.

If going for another motor option, then in the case of the 680 I really don';t know what to choose, I see a myriad of options - SunnySky X4108S, Tarot 4006, etc. everything from 400, 580 to 620kv, what would be my best bet in this scenario?

For ESC';s 30A would be enough, any particular brand recommended?

I';ve already read more build threads than I can remember, but aside from reading good things from the DJI sets, the other motor options are very diverse. With the smooth video in mind, what would be a good bet?

Cheers, and thanks!

[Nige8021]

I';ve got a 550 clone and I';ve just bought these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261970746867?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT to extend the arms so it can use 12" props now looking for suitable motors, The multistar 3508 640Kv looks the favourite ???

[Rafter]

I';m not an expert and I';m sure there will be someone along soon to point you in the right direction.
I upgraded my 550, using the Aeroxcraft extension arms, which allowed the use of 12" props which came with the DJI E600 propulsion system.  I think there have been some upgrades to E1200 systems but don';t have any details.  All the DJI propulsion systems come with matched ESC';s and props, so you don';t need to worry about getting the right esc.  I think you might be better using longer arms than the extensions, which I';ve heard can cause vibration and flexing of the standard plastic arms.   From my experience and a friend who has the same set up, I (we) get smooth video using GoPros.
The only downside is that the E600 system runs better with 6S batteries, so you might find that it is more expensive, in the long run.  You might have to get 6S if you';ve not already got them and also upgrade your charger to cater for them.
I';m not too sure whether the 550 upgrade will handle the Sony cameras though, so the Tarot might be the way to go.
Welcome to the world of bottomless purses . . . .!!

[davethepitch]

For ESC';s 30A would be enough, any particular brand recommended?

Hi soundsk and welcome to the forum.

I am sorry i cannot give you any advice on which 30 amp ESC to choose but i would advise against having a 4 in 1 ESC although you may already know that.

I am sure you will get the answers you need and good luck. 

Dave

[soundsk]

Sorry, I forgot to mention, if going for the F550 I was thinking of the DJI E300 set, not the E600, although now that you mention it, it might not be a bad idea...

That way I could "divide" the spending right now mostly paying for the E600 set and cheapo F550 frame, and after some time, all I';d have to do is make the transition to the bigger 680 frame and even a Naza V2 full set to upgrade from the stock Phantom Naza.

As for extension arms I found this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/F450-F550-Multicopter-DJI-Style-CNC-Aluminum-Alloy-Extension-Arm-26-4cm-black-e-/281766022993?hash=item419a904f51

And even a frame set:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/F550-PCB-Center-Plate-650mm-Aluminum-Alloy-Arm-Hexacopter-Frame-Kit-i-/251990239795?hash=item3aabc9ea33

Still, the folding capabilities of the 680, carbon fiber and bigger size may be the smarter investment.
But getting the frame plus E600 set is a *big* investment right now.
Any recommendation on cheapo reliable motors for the 680?
Then in time I could upgrade the motors to a E600 set, just not right now.

Also read something about the E600 motors not mounting correctly to the 680 motor mounts, but couldn';t find out exactly why or how it';s solved. Anyone know about this?

[Soler]

My recommendation would be to spend what you can on getting the right Motor ESC combo as this is what keeps it all up in the air.   

The E600 system will be fine for a go pro and similar sized camera,  as soon as you want to go bigger /heavier you will start to be on the edge.   

Generally (and I have done it my self) you start with a Gopro and then want a bigger camera,  followed by bigger batteries so you can stay up longer.  Then you need a better gimbal.   All this weight adds up and soon your craft is loaded.   

With all that load your craft still manages to take off but it is using 70% of its total thrust just to keep it in the air and  as soon as you make a fast corner or get hit by a gust of wind it no longer has the power reserves to pull it through the manoeuvre and falls out of the sky.

My advice is decide on what type of camera you want to fly now,  if its a go pro then the E600 is going to be fine,  if its larger then the e800 or similar my be closer to what you need.  Once you have chosen your power system then start looking for your frame.  The power system is going to set you back the most and you don';t want to buy it twice unless you want a second multi rotor.

For your smooth video it down to the gimbal that you choose.  Personally I have got the best results out of the DJI Zenmuse with virtually zero setup and messing around.

[soundsk]

My advice is decide on what type of camera you want to fly now,  if its a go pro then the E600 is going to be fine,  if its larger then the e800 or similar my be closer to what you need.  Once you have chosen your power system then start looking for your frame.  The power system is going to set you back the most and you don';t want to buy it twice unless you want a second multi rotor.

I';ve just been looking at the E800 system, but all the builds I find have extended arms on the 680 Pro, are these necessary for the prop clearance of the E800 kit?
Where would I go about finding the extended arms?

I';ve just ordered a few minor parts I know I';ll need: a "standard" GPS/Compass unit for the Naza, to replace the one it comes with, foldable GPS holder, 10mm carbon tubing and adapter plates for the gimbal.
I';ve also ordered those rubber dampers from Tarot, as I read somewhere that they are much better than the ones the DYS gimbal comes with.

I';m pretty much sold on the 680 Pro, just waiting on a quote from a local shop, or else I';ll order from ebay, unless anyone knows where I can get it at a good price!

As for the propulsion system I haven';t decided yet, but I';ll probably go with what I know for sure is good, even if it means having to wait a bit until I can gather some funds...

[FSMCA]

I went with a F550 DJI ARF kit and pixhawk, its a great reliable craft.  It can fly a gopro in high wind the flight time isn';t too bad.  However I wish I went with a FY680pro.  The F550 is a pain to transport/store because it doesn';t fold.  A FY680 with the same gopro setup will get better flight times and do better in the wind.

[Soler]

I';ve just been looking at the E800 system, but all the builds I find have extended arms on the 680 Pro, are these necessary for the prop clearance of the E800 kit?
Where would I go about finding the extended arms?

I';ve just ordered a few minor parts I know I';ll need: a "standard" GPS/Compass unit for the Naza, to replace the one it comes with, foldable GPS holder, 10mm carbon tubing and adapter plates for the gimbal.
I';ve also ordered those rubber dampers from Tarot, as I read somewhere that they are much better than the ones the DYS gimbal comes with.

I';m pretty much sold on the 680 Pro, just waiting on a quote from a local shop, or else I';ll order from ebay, unless anyone knows where I can get it at a good price!

As for the propulsion system I haven';t decided yet, but I';ll probably go with what I know for sure is good, even if it means having to wait a bit until I can gather some funds...

The E800 is with a 13 inch prop which will fit on the 680 without extending the arms (should be about 5cm clearance between tips).  But the E800 uses lower KV motors which means you will need to run a 6S battery.

This guy is running 13 inch props on his 680, but with different motors
http://forum.flitetest.com/showthread.php?14034-13-Inch-props-on-FY680

[soundsk]

Well, so much for the "budget-minded" part of this! 

Just ordered a Tarot 680 frame and extended arms from tarot-rc. I hope it arrives without any issues, I';m always kind of afraid when I order from HK and the like.

I';ve also ordered quite a few bits and bobs I';ll need for the build, connectors, antenna holders, 10mm tubing etc. etc.

If all goes well I should be able to order the E800 propulsion set toward the end of the month.

It';s my first build from scratch, I hope everything comes together, if not I';m counting on the help of you fine folks to see this through!

I';ve also been tinkering with my Phantom.
Calibrated the IMU by leveling the actual NAZA instead of the copter, which had dramatic (good) results, moved the batteries around to adjust weight distribution and balanced the props.

Also programmed my Futaba';s channel mix to do auto-panorama and auto-circling, which sometimes comes in handy. I also switched the connections and now have two leads from FC to the gimbal for ROLL/PITCH FC info, and one directly from the receiver CH8 to the PITCH control of the gimbal, thus freeing the X2 on the Naza so I can remotely adjust the gains via the trim switches.

My 3D printer is also back online, so it';ll come in handy for any custom fabrication I need.

I';ll keep posting updates as the work progresses. 
Cheers!

[mpd79]

Welcome!

I';ve used HK F30A';s flashed with SIMONK for at least a year now and they have been faultless! Also used them on several other builds and never had one fail. Really cheap too!

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__15205__Hobby_King_30A_ESC_3A_UBEC.html

..Oh and I use them on a 680pro with EMAX 3510';s which gives great performance :-)

I would also consider the X-Rotor series by hobbywing, they are brilliant right out the box and very reasonable (cheap)!
http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking/store/__73091__Hobbywing_X_Rotor_ESC_40amp_UK_Warehouse_.html?strSearch=x-rotor
http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking/store/__73087__Hobbywing_X_Rotor_ESC_20amp_UK_Warehouse_.html?strSearch=x-rotor

Cheers,

MIke

[qazwasit]

Could you not stretch to a CF frame?

You can get a lot of bang for your buck if you shop on Ali Express and get unbranded CF frames.

E.g. http://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-Quality-MR-RC-680-Carbon-Fiber-Full-Folding-Hexacopter-680mm-FPV-Aircraft-Multi-Rotor-Air/32378469582.html

If you';re thinking of larger cameras and gimbals this may be your best bet..

[soundsk]

Well, what';s done is done, and the extended 680 Pro frame is ordered and payed for. 
Your thinking isn';t wrong, but right now I prefer getting a good reliable platform with good motors.

Seeing as I will be using the E800 set, there still is room to upgrade to an 800 sized frame further along, if I want/need to.

I was planning on using the NAZA from the phantom, but it doesn';t have PMU or iOSD, and a friend has offered to buy the phantom fully stock from me, which should cover the cost of a new NAZA full set and part of the E800 set or even a new FPV set.

All I can do now is wait for the parts to start arriving...   
Cheers!

[soundsk]

About the batteries, I';ve never used 6S batteries before, I was looking for prices and availability and saw that 6S packs are 22.2V packs - so, could two 3S pack in series work?

And do I need any voltage regulator or anything of the sort, or does it all connect to the power distribution an from there to the ESC';s and to the Naza PMU? Do I need BEC';s?

Thanks & Cheers!

[Soler]

About the batteries, I';ve never used 6S batteries before, I was looking for prices and availability and saw that 6S packs are 22.2V packs - so, could two 3S pack in series work?

And do I need any voltage regulator or anything of the sort, or does it all connect to the power distribution an from there to the ESC';s and to the Naza PMU? Do I need BEC';s?

Thanks & Cheers!

Yes you can use 2 X3S batteries in series,  nothing special to do for voltage as the Naza will take a 6S and provide 5V for your RX.  Depending on your FPV setup you might need 12V for that

[soundsk]

Just a small update, I should receive the 680 Pro frame before the end of the week, it';s clearing customs right now.

And I should receive the E800 kit by tomorrow or Wednesday, and I ended up getting a new Naza M V2 full combo kit with iOSD and PMU and all that jazz.

I downloaded a mount block to secure the E800 ESC';s under the motors and I';ll be printing them tonight.

Only thing left are the batteries, they';re quite pricey, but I';m thinking somewhere around 10000mAh should be good for flight times...
For testing I';ll use the ones from the Phantom setup in series&parallel 2x2200+2x2200.

Photos as soon as things start coming together. Also thinking of doing a timelapse of assembly.

[soundsk]

I';ve been printing parts for the new drone - antenna & GPS holders, GPS, drill guides, ESC mounts and a few other bits.

The E800 set arrived yesterday, along with the Naza kit, it really looks the part! Premium stuff!

I';ve also been trying to improve my film-making & editing skills lately, so I thought I';d take this opportunity and document the process and make a short video, as training.

Here';s a small teaser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJsrdpP1f9M

[Moffmo]

Watching this with interest as I too am wanting to do a "budget" build.

I already have a NAZA V2, I need frame/motors/ESCS/Gimbal. I also want to do a hexacopter.

I';d love to know how much you end up spending :)

[soundsk]

Another update for those interested!

The frame is being delivered today, and I';ve ordered a Multistar 12000mAH battery along with a charger and a few other bits, should arrive early next week.

So, in the meanwhile, because from what I see some of you are interested, here is a list of what I';ve bought so far and what is still left to get/upgrade:

Using from my Phantom:

- Futaba T8J transmitter, receiver and battery;
- 200mW 8CH cheapo transmitter, receiver and nasty 4" LCD;
- DYS 3 axis GoPro gimbal with 8-bit controller;


What I';ve ordered so far:

- Tarot 680 Pro frame and extended arms from tarot-rc.com - 126eur (91.75GBP)

- DJI E800 Propulsion System from electronicarc.com - 439eur (319.65GBP)
- DJI NAZA V2 Combo Kit from electronicarc.com - 229eur (166.74GBP)

Hobbyking (total around 103GBP):
- Multistar 12000mAH 6S battery;
- X120 120W DC 6S Charger;
- Tie-D-Wires wire holders;
- Clip-on Ferrite rings;
- XT60 connectors;
- Hook&Loop velcros;

From eBay (total around 50GBP):
- Tarot 680 canopy;
- JST connectors w/ leads;
- XT60 female lead;
- Tarot inverted battery plate with dampers;
- Universal mount plate with dampers;
- 2x 10mm diameter 280mm long carbon tubes;
- Tarot gimbal dampers;

Printed parts (at home):
- Naza GPS holder;
- 16mm drill guide;
- Naza LED mount;
- ESC mounts;
- Antenna&receiver holders;
- Spare arm clamps;

Still left to order (need to sell the other kidney  ):
- 16000mAH battery;
- 7" IPS LCD screen with built-in 5.8GHz 32CH receiver and battery;
- 600mW 5.8GHz transmitter;
- Cloverleaf LHCP 5.8GHz antennas;
- 32-bit AlexMos/SimpleBGC genuine controller;
- DYS BLG3SN gimbal and motors;
- Sony IR trigger and HDMI to AV converter;

That pretty much sums it up for now. Hopefully I can get to work this weekend getting major assembly done! Will post pictures and videos soon!

Cheers!

[Soler]

Give me a shout when you ready to order the other parts once you have sold your kidney,   

I have some bits on the list that you might be interested in.

[Moffmo]

Having looked at your list. I only need frame and frame related items.  Gimbal.  Motors and esc (which I assume is the djii propulsion system?) is there a reason that is so expensive and why?

I already have everything else...  Hmm...

[soundsk]

Having looked at your list. I only need frame and frame related items.  Gimbal.  Motors and esc (which I assume is the djii propulsion system?) is there a reason that is so expensive and why?

I already have everything else...  Hmm...

The E800 Propulsion System is an all-in-one pack composed of: 6 quick lock 13x4.5 carbon composite propellers, 6 ESCs, 6 rotors, 6 LED';s, computer interface, toolbox with tools, shrink tube, double-sided tape, etc.
Supposedly there is no need for balancing as the components are already tailored and calibrated to work with each other, which for me is a big plus.
And when you open that box one thing transpires: build quality.

I really wanted something with reliability and quality, and everywhere I looked and everyone I talked to seemed to list DJI E800 as the most interesting choice.
All things considered, if you sum up the total amount of getting motors, props, ESC';s, the other bits and bobs, if you order from different places and pay shipping for each one, I don';t think the difference is that much, and in the end you still might need to balance everything, which is a hassle.

Here';s an in-depth review of the system:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2408036

My frame arrived yesterday, all is good, so tomorrow I';m getting busy.
Will post photos!

Cheers!

[soundsk]

Hi!

Here';s an update on my progress this weekend.
But first, a disclaimer:
This is my first actual drone build from "scratch". Although I like tinkering and I';m good with electronics, DIY, and general hacking of stuff, my only previous experience was modifying my Phantom.

So if you see any major no-no or mistakes on my part, please let me know, so I can correct it as soon as possible and not find out the hard way - ie the thing come crashing down from the sky!

I wanted to devote both Saturday and Sunday afternoons to this so I could get as much done as possible, but unfortunately I only had Sunday afternoon because I had to finish some other business first.

Layed everything out, checked nothing was missing, got out the tools, thread lock, double-sided tape etc.
Put up a camping table in the middle of my office for extra space too.





Started with the landing gear  and lower assembly, to get my head around things.




Then took the end mounts off of the original arms, drilled holes on the extended arms and installed the end mounts on the extended arms. I don';t have a drill press, so the 16mm diameter boom drill guide for Tarot I 3D printed (found on thingiverse) a few days ago really came in handy to make the holes with minimal fuss.


After that, I started working on figuring out the motor assembly.
I had 3D printed 6 ESC mounts I found on thingiverse, and they really work very well. They add some bulk, but the ESC is way too big for the motor mount, so it was never going to look pretty.
4 screws hold the motor to the plate, the plate goes on the mount, and underneath sits the ESC held with double-sided tape and zip ties, the LED goes on the end of the mount, sits there perfectly.










All 6 are done, so tonight I should join the arms with the motor mounts, then clip them to the center plate and start soldering the wires. After that it';s time to add the Naza, Futaba receiver, PMU, iOSD, etc to the top of the center plate.

Like I said, any suggestions are welcome to a drone-building-n00b like myself! 

Cheers!

[Beaver2206]

Really interested in how this turns out.  I was debating a build like this though sadly due to time restraints went down the S900 route.  I love the s900, though still wanted to use the E800 power system on a platform.  I still have the 650 Ironman to upgrade, so who knows.

Lovely build so far, keep up the good work and keep us all posted.

[soundsk]

Really interested in how this turns out.  I was debating a build like this though sadly due to time restraints went down the S900 route.  I love the s900, though still wanted to use the E800 power system on a platform.  I still have the 650 Ironman to upgrade, so who knows.

Lovely build so far, keep up the good work and keep us all posted.

Thanks! Would love to build something like that someday. Let me get "my feet wet" with this one, and we';ll see where I go from there!

Last night the build took a wrong turn just as I picked up the first motor assembly and tried to slide in the carbon tube. It wouldn';t go in, when I looked inside this is what I saw:



There';s are a couple of bulges on the inside of the hole, making it impossible for the arm to fit. Tried piercing it to see if it was just some kind of plastic bubble that may have been formed when molding, but no, it';s solid.
I immediately sent a photo to tarot-rc asking for a replacement and just to be on the safe side I ordered an extra one, along with a few other bits that will come in handy. Even payed for DHL shipping, hoping it can still arrive this week, but I';m not very optimistic.

So, disheartened, I assembled the other five arms, screwed the arm clamps to the center plate, and noticed that the battery solder points are toward the front if you assemble as they recommend. I turned it around so the battery solder points are to the back, so I need less wire.
The downside is that the canopy will be reversed as well, but I can do something about that later.







So the copter is measuring 810mm prop shaft to prop shaft, diagonally.
The length of wire that comes with the motors is perfect, just enough.

I guess today I can solder the power to the power leads that are done, and I';ll probably design a couple more parts to print and put on it. Other than that all I can do now is wait.
The battery and a few other components should be arriving today.

Cheers!

[Mark_Felton]

Watching with interest as i have just bought a 680 Pro.  Not sure i can afford the E800 motor system, impending marriage in 4 months, should be paying for that i guess huh.

Keep up the good work and the pics.....bit of advice i picked up with the snap lock system for the legs is to make sure the red holder has the lil tab to the outside where the plastic snap down clips in, locks it securely as the other was doesnt lock it....hmmm lousy attempt at description but hope you understand.

[Moffmo]

I think I want this E800 Motor system after reading that review. Looks top notch!

[soundsk]

bit of advice i picked up with the snap lock system for the legs is to make sure the red holder has the lil tab to the outside where the plastic snap down clips in

Thanks, yes, I noticed those and I figured out what they';re for.

Meanwhile the order from hobbyking still hasn';t arrived, should arrive tomorrow, but the one from electronicarc did - XT90 connectors and charger lead, antenna adapters, DJI iOSD mini, SpiroNet LHCP antennas and a 7" LCD w/ built-in 32CH Div.&battery.




Forgot to assemble the baffle, but the screen looks very good, a world apart from my previous 4" 9$ LCD, and the setup will look very clean without all the power and video cables and battery hanging from the T8J transmitter.

[Mark_Felton]

Those motors and ESCs look something special.  I presume they are the ones that change colour if the motor starts having difficulties?  Wish I had money to get them...hmmm perhaps I could asking for them as wedding pressie lol.

[soundsk]

Those motors and ESCs look something special.  I presume they are the ones that change colour if the motor starts having difficulties?  Wish I had money to get them...hmmm perhaps I could asking for them as wedding pressie lol.

Yes, the LED';s give out some information on ESC/motor status, but I still haven';t installed the software or hooked them up to the computer to see what I can do.

The build is back on, still no word from tarot-rc as to the replacement motor mount, but I disassembled the motor and ESC, and took the defective one to a metal shop nearby, where they used a lathe or whatever to rectify the bulges. Tried it out when I got home, it';s perfect.

So I moved on. Assembled the motor/mount/ESC combo all over again, fitted the arms, checked the lengths matched on all 6, then soldered the power wires to the board and soldered the battery terminal and in the end I put the top and bottom sections together to see how it looks.





Then I realized the battery wire I was using was too thin (2.5mm), so tonight I';ll replace it with 6mm wire, and if I connect it straight to the tarot PD I don';t have anywhere to solder leads for the Naza and voltage regulators for the gimbal and FPV Tx.

What I';m going to do also is solder the battery wires to the PDB that came with the E800 system (a small round disc with 7 solder points: 1 in, 6 out) and then from there one goes to the PD on the tarot and I';ll use the others to solder leads for the Naza, V.Reg., etc.

Now for the electronics I have some doubts as to the layout. Where should I put the Naza? In the bottom plate, making it so that it sits inside the center hole when the top plate is on?
Or should I make a rectangular support plate that "covers the hole" and put everything on the top plate?