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Author Topic: UPDATED !! Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !! UPDATED !!  (Read 539 times)

Offline aburn09

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UPDATED !! Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !! UPDATED !!
« on: February 01, 2018, 16:31:18 »
I'm not new to quads I've built many 5 inch and recently 2inch quads I can build from scratch and set up and fly.......However recently I wanted osd on my both my 5 inch quads which at the time both had SP Racing F3 Evo flight boards I and were flying with no problems on Betaflight 3.1.7.....Then on ebay saw these Omnibus boards
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Betaflight-OMNIBUS-F4-Pro-V2-Flight-Control-Built-in-OSD-BEC-for-FPV-Drone-HOT/182841023530?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
and bought two of them and this is where the trouble starts I installed them both and updated to Betaflight 3.2.4 but since then neither fly very smoothly (yes I have played with the PIDS) and for no reason whilst flying they will just 'Disarm' and come crashing down to the ground......I say disarm because through my goggles I get the same display when I disarm the quads on the ground ?
There is no power loss, no signal loss, my disarm is on a switch on my tx and cant be knocked by mistake......I'm at a loss why this is happening ?
Could the boards be cheap clones that are faulty ? I've reflashed the boards a few times with beataflight 3.2.4 but no luck they still fall from the sky for no reason ?
So i'm either thinking faulty boards or something wrong with Betaflight 3.2.4..........I could reflash with 3.1.7 I suppose just to rule this out or install my SP Racing EVO boards again but I want osd so it would be a last resort.....  I'm still leaning towards the boards themselves unless anyone else has a better theory ?
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 20:23:06 by aburn09 »

Offline ched999uk

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Re: Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !!
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2018, 18:43:54 »
Stick an sd card in and record blackbox logs and post them to dropbox and give a link.

Offline Cheredanine

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Re: Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !!
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2018, 20:58:52 »
Understand why you say disarm, but that is odd, it would require a specific signal to do that since you have a switch set up.  Could be a problem with the switch or radio since it is happening on 2quads.

Agree with ched thought dissarm event is logged in bb, that will give yo7 a better idea of what is going on.

Offline aburn09

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« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 14:07:27 by aburn09 »

Offline Cheredanine

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Re: Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !!
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2018, 23:12:33 »
That’s fair enough mate although it does depend on where the band for arm is on mode on each quad

The genuine airbot omnibus is a good solid board, the chances of getting one that is faulty is no more than any other board (I have several variants), without an entire bad batch and screaming all over the Internet I don’t think it is likely you got 2 bad.

That said, I am extremely dubious that what you have are genuine airbot omnibus boards. The cost and source leads me to believe you have cheap clones. If they are cheap clones then yes it is very possibly faulty boards.

Some stuff you could check - processor load (run the status and tasks command in the cli)
In fact posting the output from those may eliminate a fair amount of stuff

Offline ched999uk

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Re: Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !!
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2018, 23:41:07 »
RadioC is closing and are doing CLONE F3 BetaFlight boards for £13 + P&P but as they are UK it should arrive quickly.
No idea if they are any good but they do have the OSD and power distribution and are only £13 so might be worth a try?
http://www.radioc.co.uk/BetaFlight-F3-p/7400.htm

Offline aburn09

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Re: Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !!
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2018, 09:59:14 »
Thanks Chedd that is a good price but I think I'll pay a little more and go with a name brand this time and go with the Matek combo with the board and pdb from Banggood......If it still cuts out after that then it's a signal issue somehow although nothing points to that at the moment as I've said to Cheredanine earlier on my other two micro quads fly fine and so does my Airwolf helicopter all are on the same tx using the same spektrum receivers which should flash a led if there is a signal loss which aren't showing that as they all still have a solid led when I go to retrieve them after they decide to fall from the sky  :cry
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 10:05:18 by aburn09 »

Offline ched999uk

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Re: Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !!
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2018, 16:12:19 »
Always best to go with genuine parts.
Have you tried BlackBox? It may seem a little intimidating but if you can record the issue in a log you can upload it and we can have a look and see if we can spot what is happening. You just need a micro sd card and then switch it on in BetaFlight.
It is always interesting seeing BB logs but then I worked for 10 years looking at data traces, figures and analysing it  ::)

Offline aburn09

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Re: Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !!
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2018, 09:55:54 »
Ched I should have the BB recordings next time I connect the quad up to the pc I'll download them to see of I can upload them to Dropbox  ~~
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 21:49:43 by aburn09 »

Offline Cheredanine

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Re: Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !!
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2018, 19:31:52 »
You don’t have an sd card?

Offline aburn09

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Re: Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !!
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2018, 09:38:12 »
Yes Cheredanine it's on a sd card but I need to connect the Sd card to the pc to check BB and to download to Dropbox  ;)

Offline Cheredanine

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Re: Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !!
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2018, 10:19:30 »
Lol ok mate

Offline aburn09

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Re: Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !!
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2018, 20:22:05 »
Ok so now as well as my two five inch quads disarming mid flight one of my new two inches has now disarmed this has a completely different flight controller from the five inches and runs a different betaflight program so I'm now thinking the Spektrum Tx could now be are fault ?
What I know........It's not a power failure there's plenty of battery power on all quads, it's not a signal failure as I'm within 200m in an open field and the Spektrum satellite receivers in the quads are not flashing indicating a signal loss, I've tried reflashing the boards changing the satellite receivers but still the problem persists........Through the goggles flying fpv when I come into land and disarm the quads the I get a screen that shows flight details which is exactly what I'm getting mid air when the quad 'disarms' so that what I think is going on but as my disarm switch on my tx is impossible to nudge by mistake I'm not causing it to disarm !!
I'm just wondering what characteristics i'd get if the quad went into failsafe mode ? Do I get the same information on my screen through my goggles as I would get if i disarm my quad ?
Is  disarm/failsafe the same thing ?
I have sent my Spektrum tx away to be looked at tested/ repaired if need be but just wondering other flyers thoughts........ before any one asks I don't have any black box recordings for reference at the moment but previous recordings I did have only showed two arm/disarm in the fights which was at the beginning and the end of the flights when 'I' flicked the tx switch.
If the hobby shop can't find a fault with the Spektrum Tx then I'm at a loss what's going on as all quads were flying for the last year or so with no problems ?
Like I said earlier in the posts the only thing I had done recently was to change the flight controllers to osd ones and upgraded betaflight to the latest version but now as one of my two inches has failed my original theory of faulty flight controllers or betaflight programming has been exonerated.......so back to the drawing board........Any other theories considered ?  :hmm:
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 21:14:51 by aburn09 »

Offline ched999uk

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Re: UPDATED !! Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !! UPDATED !!
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2018, 20:36:33 »
The only common thing is the tx! So hopefully yo will get that fixed and everything will be good again.

Offline atomiclama

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Re: UPDATED !! Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !! UPDATED !!
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2018, 08:05:42 »
Can't say what display you get when it fail safes. Don't have an OSD at the mo. Just try it yourself and see what you get.

I take it you don't have access to another TX anywhere? Club mate? Just to rule that out.

Wasdale X, Ow that hurt

Offline aburn09

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Re: UPDATED !! Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !! UPDATED !!
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2018, 12:45:28 »
No access to another tx at the moment but considering buying the Taranis x9d se at some point and if it was just for quads I would have bought one ages ago as the telemetry is better on the Taranis for alot less money.......But I also have a scale helicopter I fly with my Spektrum and it would be very complicated to transfer all the functions I have built into it over to the Taranis at the moment  :banghead:
I'm now hoping the hobby shop that I've sent it to does find a fault otherwise I'm stuck as to what's causing the disarm/failsafe ?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 23:04:42 by aburn09 »

Offline atomiclama

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Re: UPDATED !! Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !! UPDATED !!
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2018, 15:49:10 »
Reading over it again. You switch arm right?

Maybe a dodgy switch, loose connection.

So how about swapping over to a different switch for arming.

Ah I did not read it all, you've sent it off.
Wasdale X, Ow that hurt

Offline Jim Fpv

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Re: UPDATED !! Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !! UPDATED !!
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2018, 16:58:35 »
Are you always flying the same spot?

Offline aburn09

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Re: UPDATED !! Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !! UPDATED !!
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2018, 17:44:45 »
Yes Jim the same open field for the past few years with no problems until now  :banghead:

Offline Jim Fpv

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Re: UPDATED !! Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !! UPDATED !!
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2018, 17:59:55 »
Maybe try a different location?  It would eliminate any local interference.


Offline aburn09

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Re: UPDATED !! Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !! UPDATED !!
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2018, 22:37:40 »
This is where I fly and open sports field which is 160 meters long so well within any Tx range.......I usually fly from where I've marked 1 on the image up to where I've marked 2 on the image.... number 3 is where there is a mobile phone mast which is only thing that 'could' interfere with my tx signal but that's been there ever since I've used the field for flying my helicopter and quads unless something has changed with the electronics of the mast recently ?
My scale helicopter I fly line of sight so it doesn't fly much more than 60 meters away from me so I assume the signal will be stronger than my quads as they fly up to the feilds boundaries so can be up to 160 meters away from me as I fly them FPV......The quads can disarm/failsafe anything from halfway across the field up to the boundary 160 meters away but they have never disarmed before halfway which is where the phone mast is  :hmm:......The only other strange thing is my two larger five inch quads and one of my two inch quads have genuine Spektrum dsmx satellite receivers installed and those are the three that have all had disarm/failsafe problems whereas my other two inch quad has an non Spektrum aftermarket satellite receiver installed and touch wood it's the only one that had no issues ?
We'll just have to see if the hobby shop I've sent the TX to can find a problem with it ?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 23:07:32 by aburn09 »

Offline Doug

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Re: UPDATED !! Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !! UPDATED !!
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2018, 09:41:04 »
This is where I fly and open sports field which is 160 meters long so well within any Tx range.......I usually fly from where I've marked 1 on the image up to where I've marked 2 on the image.... number 3 is where there is a mobile phone mast which is only thing that 'could' interfere with my tx signal but that's been there ever since I've used the field for flying my helicopter and quads unless something has changed with the electronics of the mast recently ?
My scale helicopter I fly line of sight so it doesn't fly much more than 60 meters away from me so I assume the signal will be stronger than my quads as they fly up to the feilds boundaries so can be up to 160 meters away from me as I fly them FPV......The quads can disarm/failsafe anything from halfway across the field up to the boundary 160 meters away but they have never disarmed before halfway which is where the phone mast is  :hmm:......The only other strange thing is my two larger five inch quads and one of my two inch quads have genuine Spektrum dsmx satellite receivers installed and those are the three that have all had disarm/failsafe problems whereas my other two inch quad has an non Spektrum aftermarket satellite receiver installed and touch wood it's the only one that had no issues ?
We'll just have to see if the hobby shop I've sent the TX to can find a problem with it ?

Next time you go there can you try and find who the operator on the site is or failing any notices take a picture of it  the only thing I can think of is that just maybe 4G Has been rolled out in that area possibly in the 2.5-2.6 gHz band which could be causing your issues?

I know a few Phone mast engineers in that area so I can certainly ask a few Questions for you.

Doug

Offline aburn09

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Re: UPDATED !! Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !! UPDATED !!
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2018, 09:45:14 »
Appreciate that Doug once I get my TX back and 'try' flying there again I'll take a photo and maybe if I'm still getting problems that could be my culprit ?  ~~

Offline ched999uk

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Re: UPDATED !! Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !! UPDATED !!
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2018, 10:31:40 »
Uk mobile frequencies are:
800MHz (Band 20)
900MHz (Band 8)
1800MHz (Band 3)
2100MHz (Band 1)
2600MHz (Band 7) only EE and Vodafone

I would be surprised if that was the issue as they are likely to be very good quality transmitters. But you never know.

Offline Doug

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Re: UPDATED !! Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !! UPDATED !!
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2018, 10:49:53 »
Uk mobile frequencies are:
800MHz (Band 20)
900MHz (Band 8)
1800MHz (Band 3)
2100MHz (Band 1)
2600MHz (Band 7) only EE and Vodafone

I would be surprised if that was the issue as they are likely to be very good quality transmitters. But you never know.

At present but there is talk in the industry of 2500 stuff as well also bare in mind that on 4G the uplink is above the TX which is quite a bit below the band frequency even now the phone txts on 2500-2570 and with multiple carriers PIM Can come into play and that can land in the 2400 band that we use  RF is an absolute minefield and PIM is the biggest cause of interference not the Transmitters  and then of course you get people who want to improve there coverage so buy a repeater (Totally illegal and lots get seized by Ofcom on a daily basis).  So nothing is outside the realms of possibilities  but knowing the Cell ID I can find out if there have been issues on that site in the recent past.

Offline aburn09

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Re: UPDATED !! Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !! UPDATED !!
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2018, 11:14:15 »
I know this is all hypothetical at the moment but a cell tower does throw another possibility into my signal issues.......I'll get a photo for you shortly Doug but I'm hoping now it is a TX fault as I've tried all options on my quads and if the TX doesn't have a fault then something is disrupting the signal and the only thing near by that 'could' disrupt my signal is the cell tower if Dougs theory is correct which means I'll have to find a different flying site but this one is very convenient for me  :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 11:18:45 by aburn09 »

Offline Doug

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Re: UPDATED !! Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !! UPDATED !!
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2018, 11:17:44 »
I know this is all hypothetical at the moment but a cell tower does throw another possibility into my signal issues.......I'll get a photo for you shortly Doug but I'm hoping now it is a TX fault otherwise I'll have to find a different flying site but this one is very convenient for me  :rolleyes:

AS chedd says I would be surprised if it is the cause as it never bothered you before but knowing the operator or cell number I can do some checking for you

Offline aburn09

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Re: UPDATED !! Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !! UPDATED !!
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2018, 12:02:23 »
Ok this is really for Doug there are in fact two masts I think that sit either side off the sports hall ?... ...The first most obvious one is an O2 mast the second one if it is a phone mast hasn't got any owners markings on it ?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 12:26:20 by aburn09 »

Offline Doug

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Re: UPDATED !! Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !! UPDATED !!
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2018, 12:57:45 »
can u get pics of the bottom cabinets and any notices on them they should have a site number hopefully

Bu I can tell from what is shown that there is probably all 5 operators useing those 2 masts so quite a lot of RF around and there is Microwave dishes for the Backhaul links on what I think is
the EE site

Offline aburn09

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Re: UPDATED !! Both 5inch Quads Disarming Mid-Air !! UPDATED !!
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2018, 16:29:22 »
Doug the large cell tower is o2 hopefully the information is in the pictures and the tall thin one is an RF antenna again operated by o2 according to the tiny label  ;)