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Author Topic: Advice for Motor and esc upgrade for wizard  (Read 2064 times)

Offline Adamfmiller

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Advice for Motor and esc upgrade for wizard
« on: April 12, 2017, 17:17:20 »
hi i have a wizard x220 been flying for a few months now and starting to get better but also quicker and closer to things and after alot of crashes couple of motors are getting a bit rattlely. Sooooo i thought upgrade time  ::) was looking at the new emax red bottoms 2300kv and possibly some 35a littlebees if anybody has any input on this im all ears. But my main question is if i upgrade my escs all of them i have looked at have the main power wires but also 2 signal wires (white and black) with a plug on the end. My original escs only have the one signal wire which is solder to my fc (which is an sp racing f3). my fc is setup as oneshot125 don';t know if this makes a difference. so are these escs compatible with my setup or not.

Many thanks in advance

Offline Revs

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Re: Advice for Motor and esc upgrade for wizard
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2017, 20:05:36 »
Hi Adam. I think the first thing to ask here is; what lipos are you using and what props? No point in upgrading to a setup that draws over 100A if your pack can';t cope. Also 35A is a bit overkill unless you';re running 6" props. 25-30A will be fine and save a little weight. Spedix are excellent and cheap.

The smaller black wire is a second negative wire that runs to your FC along side the white signal wire and connects to the negative pins on the FC. The reason for having a separate signal negative is that it reduces noise in the signal wire, which can cause issues. Strictly speaking you should use them but not having them isn';t an issue more often than not. I';ve always used them though.

Once you have new ESCs you';ll probably be best using multishot. IMO Dshot is best but I think you';d have to mod your FC for it to work.

Offline Jazzz

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Re: Advice for Motor and esc upgrade for wizard
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2017, 21:22:17 »
I really like the emax red bottoms lots of power
And quite durable min have taken a real beating over the last 6  months ...

Offline Jazzz

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Re: Advice for Motor and esc upgrade for wizard
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2017, 21:27:06 »
Hi Adam. I think the first thing to ask here is; what lipos are you using and what props? No point in upgrading to a setup that draws over 100A if your pack can';t cope. Also 35A is a bit overkill unless you';re running 6" props. 25-30A will be fine and save a little weight. Spedix are excellent and cheap.

The smaller black wire is a second negative wire that runs to your FC along side the white signal wire and connects to the negative pins on the FC. The reason for having a separate signal negative is that it reduces noise in the signal wire, which can cause issues. Strictly speaking you should use them but not having them isn';t an issue more often than not. I';ve always used them though.

Once you have new ESCs you';ll probably be best using multishot. IMO Dshot is best but I think you';d have to mod your FC for it to work.
I didn';t no being over propped could ruin my battery';s
I just thought it could ruin the esc or motors.
No wonder I';ve been going through so many battery';s
I';ve had three blow over the last three weeks one only a week old ...
The 1300 look like shrunk in the fire crisp packets

Offline Adamfmiller

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Re: Advice for Motor and esc upgrade for wizard
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2017, 07:05:26 »
hi thanks for the reply the batteries i have are gens ace tattu 1300 i have 2 at 45c which were the first i got then i got 4 more at 75c. i fly with king kong 5040x3s atm as they are cheap iv gone through quite a few lol but im looking at dalprop 5040x3s next or possibly even the dalprop cyclone 5046x3. so just because the esc says it runs dshot does that just mean its capable of running dshot but can run with the other modes as well. and lastly the negative signal wire does that have to be soldered to the parallel negative pad to the positive signal wire on the fc or does it not matter as long as it is on a negative pad. its just without stripng it down at this very min no1 pads + - have something soldered to them which my guess is whats powering the board and escs are on pads 1234.

Thanks for all the help i really wished i had built from scratch now cause when im done there aint gonna be much left on it original and im only just learning how things work. so my advice now to any noob reading this is go with the advice of the experienced on here and build not take a short cut  :notworthy:
« Last Edit: April 13, 2017, 08:39:18 by Adamfmiller »

Offline Cheredanine

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Re: Advice for Motor and esc upgrade for wizard
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2017, 10:21:20 »
Agree with revs - spedix es25 or 30 and I would suggest brother hobby tornado t2 3306 2300kv as cheap and powerful

Offline Adamfmiller

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Re: Advice for Motor and esc upgrade for wizard
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2017, 20:03:45 »
Thanks for the advise I';ll look at getting that motor and ESC combo, so does it matter where the negative ESC signal wire is connected or is just as long as it';s on a negative pad

Offline Cheredanine

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Re: Advice for Motor and esc upgrade for wizard
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2017, 22:16:59 »
The small negative wire? There are many people that don';t even connect it, there are two schools of thought on the subject

Offline Adamfmiller

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Re: Advice for Motor and esc upgrade for wizard
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2017, 08:44:22 »
Yeah there is only one wire on my current ESC and i asked about it cause all the escs I';ve  I looked at have a pos a and neg revs suggested that i should connect

Offline Adamfmiller

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Re: Advice for Motor and esc upgrade for wizard
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2017, 15:32:04 »
I have ordered some tornado t2s and was looking at these www.electricwingman.com/spedix-is30a-4s-esc will they be ok i don';t want to mess my batteries up is there a calculation i can do to work it out?

Offline Digit

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Re: Advice for Motor and esc upgrade for wizard
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2017, 15:41:34 »
I';m using the T2s with spedix 30s (not that particular version though) and it';s all perfectly fine.
Here';s a link to some thrust tests, they also have the current draw as well.
http://www.miniquadtestbench.com/tornado-t2-2206-2300kv.html
« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 16:13:03 by Digit »

Offline atomiclama

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Re: Advice for Motor and esc upgrade for wizard
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2017, 15:51:02 »
There are many people that don';t even connect it

Me, me, me.

it';s just extra weight.  ::)
Wasdale X, Ow that hurt

Offline Cheredanine

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Re: Advice for Motor and esc upgrade for wizard
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2017, 17:36:47 »
Me, me, me.

it';s just extra weight.  ::)
I don';t have it connected on my tbs setup because they suggest you don';t, and on a few older builds, so not really one way or the other, but suggest you leave it off on the bf thread and they all start tutting and talking ground loops!

Offline Adamfmiller

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Re: Advice for Motor and esc upgrade for wizard
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2017, 17:44:02 »
Ok sweet so what is it exactly that fry';s a battery and how do you avoid it

Offline Cheredanine

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Re: Advice for Motor and esc upgrade for wizard
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2017, 17:58:55 »
Ok mate, the current draw (amps) of motors is basically a product of a number of things, the kv of the motor, which governs the speed the motor tries to spin (for a given voltage and throttle value) and the propeller which basically fights the motor, putting load on it. If the prop is too much for the motor it is called "over propping", the motor with draw massive amounts of current without the corresponding increase in speed of rotation (it just lacks the torque)

The current is therefore "pulled" from the motor.

If the amp draw gets too high the motor will melt (or the windings will)

However before that point the amp draw may exceed the capability of the esc, causing that to literally burst into flame.

That all assumes the lipo is capable of delivering the amps.
If you try and pull too much out of a lipo it will puff up and eventually go up in a ball of smoke and hissing.

Overpropping of any sort isn';t a brilliant idea, the motor becomes inefficient, heat degrades the magnets, heat in the lipo shortens its life etc

You avoid it by working out your currents properly.
To give you a current (see what I did there ? :)) example:

I am about to upgrade one of my dquad obsessions, I have tmotor f60 pro 2500kv arriving tomorrow and wraith32 escs arriving next week so I thought it may be interesting to try and push the motors or esc beyond their limit.
I am running returner r4 2206 2300kv motors, spedix es25 escs and racekraft 5051s, I set the cam angle to about 70 degrees and kicked the crap out the throttle,
I can not get the motors to do anything more ham get slightly warm, the escs remain cool, but the lipos are quite hot and I am using tattu r-line 1300mah 4s 95c lipos, they are good lipos, if I continue like this all I am gonna achieve is puffing up one of my batteries.  They should be able to provide 123.5amps constant and double that burst, no way I am drawing over 100 amps constant but if I continue they are not long for the world, (all battery specs are naff)

So gonna have to find another way to dispose of escs and motors.

Offline Adamfmiller

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Re: Advice for Motor and esc upgrade for wizard
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2017, 07:02:15 »
Thanks alot that is exactly the answer i was looking for, you are the Godfather of quad  :notworthy:

Offline atomiclama

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Re: Advice for Motor and esc upgrade for wizard
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2017, 08:22:41 »
but suggest you leave it off on the bf thread and they all start tutting and talking ground loops!

Some of the arguments I have read just don';t make sense. The problem is working out who knows what they are talking about rather than just thinks they know. All good fun.
Wasdale X, Ow that hurt

Offline Cheredanine

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Re: Advice for Motor and esc upgrade for wizard
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2017, 08:29:26 »
Some of the arguments I have read just don';t make sense. The problem is working out who knows what they are talking about rather than just thinks they know. All good fun.
The fact the conversation comes up over and over again every few hundred posts on the bf thread without resolution with people who are usually reliable on both sides says to me it don';t matter, there may be issues with removing it, but only if there is a seperate underlying issue

Offline Adamfmiller

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Re: Advice for Motor and esc upgrade for wizard
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2017, 12:32:12 »
I';ll leave it off it';s worked fine for me so far so if it ain';t broke and all that