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  • #91 by Cheredanine on 09 Feb 2017
  • I term wind up, actually there is a safety catch that prevents air mode from doing this until after you have raised the throttle past a set point (I think 1350 from memory but it is configurable).
    Once it is activated it will take effect whatever the throttle until you power down
  • #92 by greggmaN on 10 Feb 2017
  • took it for a spin my first ever video...i made a mount using a yellow dish sponge! cut it at a angle! suspension!! take a look its the foxeer legend 1
  • #93 by greggmaN on 12 Feb 2017
  • fc gone again!! not connecting to pc.... smelt smoke at field...after a crash...it started yesturday when i turned out of a flip and 2 front motors stopped...resoldered esc and it was fine i then tried to hover in the garden and it was hovering perfect problem solved....took it to field today flew around slowly on a lipo and it was fine....put new lipo on took off went forward then slowly banked and its just started flipping then crashed...changed prop started it again and started smelling smoke from somehwhere the black lead for the signal leads on tje fc was out a little tiny bit could that have caused it to smoked as its not plugged all way in? it will not power to pc now...so im assuming the fc gone
  • #94 by greggmaN on 12 Feb 2017
  • also you was saying upgrade esc....can you tell me what esc would fit my be1806 2300 motors best on the www.makeitbuildit.com website as i need to buy another fc so may aswell upgrade them aswell
  • #95 by Cheredanine on 12 Feb 2017
  • Black wire on signal line to esc is ground, many people don't even bother installing it, unlikely to be problem

    If you plug USB in and it doesn't power then yeah, something majorly bad has happened to fc,
    Quite typical if you have let the magic smoke out

    Can suggest lots of fc, problem is you are running pwm from your Rx, give me 5

    I would recomend these:
    https://www.electricwingman.com/spedix-es20-lite-esc
    Cheaper and better than any Phil has, if you gonna buy escs from him then these:
    http://makeitbuildit.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=87_32&product_id=857
    (The alternative littlebee blheli_s 20a had problems with bursting into flames, which is never good)

    Ideally for a flight controller you want at least f3 with an spi gyro, unfortunately you have a PWM reciever (what reciever are you running? If it can do ppm or better yet serial such as sbus or ibus that would open up a raft of good flight controllers)

    Otherwise you are probably back to sprf3 clones
  • #96 by greggmaN on 12 Feb 2017
  •  the reciever i have is the frsky d4rii one im sure its got ppm and ive connected the rx leads as the guy i bought it off... with my naze 32 i used to have the ppm input selected on my reciever tab in bf, ive got it wired up the same way ti the rx with my new fc is that right?

    whats wrong with the esc i uave no i know they are very old just wondered how does it effect the fc?
  • #97 by Cheredanine on 12 Feb 2017
  • Lol well sod this,
    If you can do it get an xsr or xm+ reciever

    (Sorry got confused you are running ppm
    Then loads of better flight controllers

    Don't bother with aio (all in one) flight controllers

    Suggest motolabs cyclone (if you are not bothered about dshot)
    Rotorgeeks RG-SSD
    Lux v1 or v2

    If you are shopping at Phil's then sprf3 evo although this still uses a dodgy gyro on his list (MPU9250 is an MPU6500 with added sensors)
  • #98 by greggmaN on 12 Feb 2017
  • on that fc ive just blown....it was set to pwn on the betaflight...but it was plugged in as i do ppm would it matter? would it not have worked at all if it was done wrong...i was out yesturday and had a ball it was great so cant see that being anything suspicious?
  • #99 by Cheredanine on 12 Feb 2017
  • Pwm = 1 channel on each wire
    Ppm = all channels on one wire

    It shouldn't work but wouldn't past it

    You are using ppm, I am just a bit brain dead ATM
  • #100 by greggmaN on 12 Feb 2017
  • are right yes im using ppm one lead all channels but on betaflight its registered pwm in the config tab should i change it to ppm input instead?
  • #101 by greggmaN on 12 Feb 2017
  • i think im gonna go with the spracing evo f3 from phils and get him sodlering it again
  • #102 by Cheredanine on 12 Feb 2017
  • Lol pretty much all suppliers offer a pin soldering service.

    The evo has spi to the gyro so that's good, BUT it uses the mpu9250
    This gyro is the mpu6500 with extra sensors

    It may, and does, fly fine for many people, but at the very least soft mount it.

    The issue with the gyro is it is more suceptabke to noise, and con basically black out if it gets overloaded.
    When it started to be used bf had a GitHub issue that ran for months on it, people talked to invosense, the manufacturer, invosense pointed out the specification did not include drones as potential uses unlike other gyros and in the end stated it wasn't a good choice for a flight controller.

    The gyro was used in the naze rev6 and lux (although lumenier changed it for the lux rev2)

    General advice is soft mount itas a bare minimum, it quite possibly will fly fine, but if may not, and if it doesn't you can end up with a dud

  • #103 by greggmaN on 12 Feb 2017
  • oooo...i dont know weather to just stick with this skyline board, this flew fine..my only issue is i dont want ti end up buying another and another is this skyline im getting not great build where as the evo will take more punishment? as a beginner will i tell the difference between both? id rather not get it and it flying around daft cause its seeing to much noise
  • #104 by Cheredanine on 12 Feb 2017
  • The other issue with both the skyline and the sprf3 are all those connectors, you can see they used pin holes rather than connectors on subsequent boards (sprf3 evo) as people complained the connectors snapped off, but that is all anecdotal
  • #105 by greggmaN on 15 Feb 2017
  • ive installed new esc and fc and calibrated them...hovers fine with latest firmware....which dshot can i use with the esc you told me to buy from elecyricwingman t days dshot 150 300 600
  • #106 by Cheredanine on 15 Feb 2017
  • Dshot has a number as you can see, that number is the frame rate in kHz, dshot is a 16 bit signal so divide the frame rate by 16 and you get the maximum signal freq.

    Dshot always synchronises the esc signal to the pid loop freq.
    The highest you can possibly run the pid loop on the skyline/sprf3 is 4khz and you may push the cpu load over the cliff at that, I would run 4khz gyro and 2 or 2.6khz pid

    Any of the Dshot protocols will cope with that fine

    So the other thing is depends if you got escs from new or old stock as to if they have a capacitor on the signal line.

    Other than physical inspection, try running Dshot 600 from the motor tab, if it works then it is very unlikely you have the caps (which is good)
    If 600 doesn't work try 300 and then 150
    You may need to remove the caps
  • #107 by greggmaN on 15 Feb 2017
  • sorry to be a pain can you explian pid loop frequency to me is it the time the quad responds to input from the tx??
  • #108 by greggmaN on 15 Feb 2017
  • ive set gyro 4khz and pid 2khz...selected dshot600 but need to know what oercentage is my min throttle for airmode...i got mine set now on onshot125 at 1040 min throttle but in dshot its a percentage i would like something similar to that
  • #109 by Cheredanine on 15 Feb 2017
  • No worries :)

    Controll of a quadcopter goes like this (ignoring self levelling)

    There are two inputs:
    Input 1 - rc command - what the sticks tell the radio which tells the reciever which tells the flight controller.

    Input 2 - the gyro - data tells what the quad is actually doing.  Gyro sampling rate is configured from the config tab. The higher this is the better, the laws of physics (nyquist limit) says the gyro data is only accurate for oscillations at half the frequency of the sample rate or below, anything above that will produce aliasing - essentially false readings.
    So always run the gyro as fast as you can (currently I run at 32khz)
    There are physical limits on gyro speeds, both the gyro its self and the connection, your gyro can handle up to 32khz but it's connection is i2c, not SPI which means actually it is limited to 4khz.

    So it is important to run your gyro as fast as you can and in your case 4khz is it

    Now both of these inputs are fed into the pid loop. The pid loop takes what you are asking the quad to do, and what the gyro tells it that it is actually doing, and works out what the motors need to do in order to correct to what you have asked. (It is basically the core function of the flight controller).  Speed is important because it reduces the latency between a change being needed and a change happening. But we are dealing with mechanical systems here, there is a limit on how quickly motors /props can react

    There are two schools of thought,
    1. (Main advocate BorisB and I agree with having done blind tests) once your pid loop goes above about 2 or 2.6khz there is no difference in feel of the quad, so no point in running higher than that
    2. (Main advocate raceflight really) a higher number has to be better

    There is a downside to running pid loops high, it puts load on the cpu if that's get too high the fc will stop and gravity takes over

    So in your case I would run pid loops at 2, 2.6 or 4khz but watch the cou load, I have quads flying comfortably with cpu load in the 50s but don't let it get higher than that

    Now the pid loop is just a calculation that achieves an (well 4, one for each motor) answer.
    There are again, two ways of sending this to the escs.
    The least latency comes from synchronising the esc signal to the pid loop. This means as soon as a new answer is achieved, it is sent, there is no seperate loop time for the motor signal to the esc.
    This is the ideology of betaflight and is automatically set if you use dshot

    But you can (with OS or MS), use the approach adopted by raceflight, which is to send it as fast as you can, desyncing the motor signal from the pid loop.  Again on the basis that a higher number has to be better, for example with multishot, you can run the motor signal at up to 32khz. But the value doesn't change, if your pid loop is 2khz and your motor signal is 32khz this means you send 16 identical signals, then the next pid value is calculated and you send another 16 signals with the new value.
    The blheli devs have confirmed that sending the same value repeated times does not change what the esc does
    Raceflight still push it, but personnaly I think the best approach is obvious.
    Add to that dshot is a vastly more stable signal and it only runs synchronised
  • #110 by Cheredanine on 15 Feb 2017
  • ive set gyro 4khz and pid 2khz...selected dshot600 but need to know what oercentage is my min throttle for airmode...i got mine set now on onshot125 at 1040 min throttle but in dshot its a percentage i would like something similar to that
    So when you use dshot you don't need to calibrate the escs, it won't make any difference, because signal length timing is not used, it is a proper digital signal

    Equally min and max throttle are no longer used.

    You have one variable - digital idle percent
    The value for this should be worked out the same way as you would have worked out your min throttle value (spinup +30j but it is expressed as a percent of the whole 1000 throttle range (so if your min throttle would have been 1040 because your motors spin at 1010, your digital idle should be 4 because 1040 is 4% of the way from 1000 to 2000)

    (Although behind the scenes dshot uses a 2000 point throttle range which gives it more granularity and should actually make it smoother, although that may not be obvious to the pilot)
  • #111 by Cheredanine on 15 Feb 2017
  • I should add, when you try a new protocol, possibly when you flash a new build, you should test the motors from the motor tab without props

    This ignores the pid loop and the gyro and just sends the signal value in the configurator motor tab using the protocol selected.
    That fundamentally confirms to motor/esc works with the config, although doesn't rule the motor out as a subsequent cause of issues if for example it is unbalanced and produces oscillations
  • #112 by greggmaN on 15 Feb 2017
  • i think i set it wronly...i had 1040 but my throttle only starts spinning at 1040 so it should be 1070...what would the percventage of that be to get it running at 1070? on dshot600....im assuming it would be 7%
  • #113 by Cheredanine on 15 Feb 2017
  • Yes, 7% = 1070

    But check the spin up speed, use the motor tab, with dshot I have noting spinning up over 1020 tbh
  • #114 by greggmaN on 17 Feb 2017
  • right....my frsky d4rii signal wire has been mashed up so decided to go for the FRSKY XSR sbus rx....im not to sure how to wire this up with this emax skyline fc...can you show me on that diagram where it goes and wehat wire i need that was supplied.

    also i understand phill told me that my taranis all that needs doing is changing from d8 to d16 and bind it once its all connected to the fc is this right

    thanks for all your help!
  • #115 by Cheredanine on 17 Feb 2017
  • Which uarts are you currently using mate?
    (Remind me, show me your ports tab)

    (And yes, d16)
  • #116 by greggmaN on 17 Feb 2017
  • in ports in betaflight?

    the uart 1 and 3 are set to is it msp?
  • #117 by Cheredanine on 17 Feb 2017
  • Yeah ports tab in bf

    From memory you don't have vcp so that means you are going to have to use uart2 for serial rx
  • #118 by Cheredanine on 17 Feb 2017
  • You are gonna be splicing wires but give me 5 mins, will do a diagram

    here you go, connect the sbus, ground and 5V on the XSR as shown

    you will need to set uart2 to serial RX
    then on config page set receiver to serial RX and protocol to SBUS

  • #119 by greggmaN on 18 Feb 2017
  • so do i plug the white end into the uart 2 and change to serial rx in ports and change config.....but once i put this small white connector in im left with just wires...do these need soldering to the xsr? if so where abouts do they connect
  • #120 by Cheredanine on 18 Feb 2017
  • read the notes in the top right of the picture, the xsr has a connector with 5 wires. You need to use three of them, the simplest thing is to splice the wires on the xsr to the wires on the port I would remove the 2 unused wires from the xsr and the 1 unused wire from the fc connection

    When you splice the wires make sure you solder and cover with heat shrink or electrical tape (sorry if that is teaching you to suck eggs)
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