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Author Topic: new design  (Read 1812 times)

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Online shawdreamer

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Re: new design
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2017, 13:51:55 »
save me cluttering up the "snapshot" thread with multiple posts (with the amount of different designs and numerous builds I keep making it'll just end up with me posting every other post and there are far more higher quality builds going on that deserve more airtime in that thread) I'll refresh this thread with my newer "endeavours"

firstly the Vice Versa in its original format never really got off the ground (pun intended) and eventually evolved into the Vice Versa XL which is basically a chunkier redesign of the original concept and a frame I fly as much as the weather allows.

original VV...


VVXL...


despite being one of my more simpler designs Ive grown really fond of it, nice and light, agile and takes a relatively good kicking even for a fully 3d printed frame (as testified by a 100ft nose dive resulting in only a cracked arm ~~)

spec...
2403 Racerstar 2300kv
Racerstar 20a 4in1 esc
CC3d v2.0 fc/pdb
KingKong 5051 tri's
tx0x AIO fpv

shortly after finishing the VVXL I took it and My PodRacer frame out for some acro giggles and promptly proceeded to stuff the Podracer into some heavy foliage at less than a snail like pace which resulted in some quite extensive damage to Podracer.

stripped it and condemned the frame to the recycle bin, its soul now resides in a ZMR250 CF frame I picked up for a tenner and added a few 3d bits onto...

podracer RIP, you went long before your time :cry...


but, your spirit will live on... least till I stuff this one too :embarrassed...






spec...

2205 Racerstar 2300kv
Racerstar 20a rev2 one/multi-shot esc
CC3d
RacerStar 5051 Tri's
TX02 AIO fpv (have to change this sometime soon as its a 200mw setup... I know I know naughty naughty )

Anyway, the classic ZMR frame got me thinking, as its been round for years its a pretty well supported frame type, Lots of options available for it (full pdb and integrated fc CF frame plates for example) and their pretty sturdy things even if their not exactly pretty to look at.

also a large community of 3d print designers that have had various go's at adapting the design to make it a little more practical and more cosmetically appealling, one particular approach was the "lowrider" setup were the top plate was dispensed with to reduce the frame height and the two lower plates where spaced to create a cavity for electronics...I decided to give that option a try.

my original concept designs and a full scale mock up with printed arms and plates which would be in its completed form the original CF ZMR frame parts....


certainly looked more appealing to my eye but while doing it I decided to go a little bit further (as I always find I invariably do.... more often than not to my own cost :-/).

figured If I could use the ZMR parts with the 3d printed parts as "optional add-ons" then the opposite was do-able to, design a new 3d printed frame that could use the ZMR parts as "optional add-ons" aswell but design it in such a way that it was still a viable frame even if the ZMR parts wernt used atall....



and the result looks somewhat like this...



think Ill build this one in its fully 3d printed format first, see how it flies then build a second with a pdb & fc integrated cf plate on the bottom and a standard CF plate sandwiched between the spacer/arm section and upper top plate..... all without the missus finding out.... which will be "interesting" or if she finds out.... "painful" :hmm:

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Online shawdreamer

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Re: new design
« Reply #31 on: April 21, 2017, 17:01:02 »
had to make some serious spec compromises due to only having a few select parts to hand but managed to build one of the prototypes up and fly it...

 


LDPower race spec power system (D200) with 1806 2300kv's
Matek pdb (with a additional bec installed as I previously fried the pdb bec)
CC3d Atom
5x3 props

the power system is a 2s-3s setup so right there is the first limitation (my hardware on order is for a 4s setup) but even on a low C-rating 3's it flew pretty dam well straight off the build table, I only did the most basic of Librepilot calibrations, no tuning.

havnt had a chance to see what its like acro wise as all I could really do was take it up behind my house and rip around the little open parking area to test stability and general manoeuvrability.

on order to replace current hardware is:

Racerstar 2600kv's
CC3d v2.0
Racerstar Rev2 20a escs
and a couple of fresh 4s 1800mah 70c so I can give it some proper thrashing down the field.

also have some pixel RGB LEDS on order that are built into the arms front and back for orientation.

looking forward to giving the other prototype the chunkier guts ::)
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Re: new design
« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2017, 13:20:28 »
my latest play on the qav/zmr250 type frame...



first prototype...



and a quick pre-build weigh-in just to give me a general idea of what the total will look like , with motors,esc,fc,rx (threw on a metre of red and black 18awg cable to account for an overestimate of required wiring), forgot to throw in the micro-osd but thats only 2-3g's at most anyway.



300(ish) grams......niiiiiiice.

weight will go up with some chunkier motors (their the 18xx's I bought off Saleem a few days ago) but I doubt thatll see it top 350g (fingers crossed)
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Re: new design
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2017, 16:44:31 »
finished tweeking the prototype so Im onto the finished design build, how its progressing so far....



ooooo pwetty ickle lights...



with the lid on, cant add arms yet as all my solder points need trimming back underneath so they dont touch the carbon fibre baseplate and the arms are sandwiched between it and the pdb (just have to find my soddin elusive wire nips grrrr)...



but least the FPV and OSD setup seem to be working (no FC installed yet so can access the settings till one is)....



that MicroOSD was a right pain in the ricter to solder up, fiddliest bit of soldering Ive done in a long time even with a micro-fine tip on my iron.

Parts:-
QAV/ZMR v4.1 pdb (with 12 & 5v integrated bec)
Micro-OSD
ZMR250 plates and arms
Eachine 700tvl cam
Ts5823  Skyzone vtx(temp, Ive got a mini 72ch 25/50/200mw switchable vtx on the way)
dys 1806 2300kv (temp, these will be replaced with 2306 2700kv)
dys BLHeli 16a esc

still in 2 minds about whether to try and squeeze the mini escs inside the main body as they'll fit snug with some careful wiring but the only thing putting me off is inevitable heat build up which will only be made worse by the OSD and VTX also being present inside... might be best to not push my luck and keep em out on the arms.
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Re: new design
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2017, 08:27:18 »


just have to solder up the escs on the arms and it'll be ready for a maiden today if the 5hitty weather holds off for five minutes
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Re: new design
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2017, 15:15:21 »
done and dusted....



flew like a pig at first. :cry

I swapped out the 5051 tri's I was running and slapped on some 4blade 5040 Dals, then after a bit of pid tweeking she sat in the air like she was glued there. ~~

looking forward to getting down the field and really thrashing it but wont chance it today as it looks like its about to pi55 it down at any moment ere :angry:

that's a new'un for the wall and the missus is fuming.....

"Another one?.....why do you need another one?"

"what do you mean?"

"you have about 8 on the wall already, don't any of them work??"

didn't wanna lie so I gave it a moment pause before answering.

"nope none of them work right now......"

waited for her to walk out the room before adding under my breathe....

"....not without a battery in them" :whistling:

I forgot the weigh-in now its complete, swiped the missus scales again aaaaaaaaaand...



362g with everything barring battery, that's actually better than I was hoping for.... RESULT ::), that'll come down a little more when I swap out that skyzone vtx for a mini switchable once it turns up.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 15:35:53 by shawdreamer »
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Re: new design
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2017, 15:57:00 »
that's a new'un for the wall and the missus is fuming.....

"Another one?.....why do you need another one?"

"what do you mean?"

"you have about 8 on the wall already, don't any of them work??"

didn't wanna lie so I gave it a moment pause before answering.
"nope none of them work right now......"
waited for her to walk out the room before adding under my breathe....
"....not without a battery in them" :whistling:
Nice....... Why can't they understand that you NEED multiple multi rotors for different purposes. Just like they NEED different devices to do their hair!

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Re: new design
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2017, 16:03:18 »
If soddin mountain climbers can climb mountains "cos their there"

then I can build quads "cos the parts are there" :laugh:
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Re: new design
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2017, 09:36:05 »
my 72ch switchable vtx turned up yesterday.

sooooooo tiny but sooooo soddin strong a signal, wasn't getting any breakup even using the crappy little pigtail it comes with (and that was with it set at 25mw I expect the 50 and 200 settings would only improve on that.... though Ill never use them..... as there not legal...... and that'd be naughty :whistling:).



plus its compact size meant it slotted in nicely inside the frame....



Ill eventually swap the dipole out for a clover I think, its a ipex plug type so its easy enough to snap on a ipex to sma lead


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Re: new design
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2017, 23:05:30 »
I know I'm just "fiddling" now but added a couple of bits to tidy things up...

xt60 mount at the back and a go-pro style front mount.

the latter will probably end up being surplus to requirements as I'm planning on building in a onboard dvr in what space that remains inside the main body that'll run side by side with the fpv setup to avoid latency...



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Re: new design
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2017, 22:58:42 »
was getting a bit of punchout "snarl" from the motors while running the 5040's and a few test runs revealed the motors where getting warmer than I liked.

tbf I did already realise I was pushing my luck using such aggressive props on 1806 motors but wanted to see if I could get away with it..... evidence points to "probably not and/or your a feckin idjut" so I down propped back to some 5030 CF's Ive had sat in one of my bit draws for a while.





obviously lost a good chunk of punchout but still frisky enough to keep me happy and obviously I aint toasting my motors anymore.

and also right alongside it on the bench its V2 younger brother in the midst of its wiring setup....





unlike the V1 this version will have a one piece fully enclosed canopy with built in battery alarm.

after using the V1 for a while I found the MiniOSD clutter on my fpv view was just getting annoying so I spent half an hour disabling various parts (such as artificial horizon, mode indicator, unused sat counter, compass etc) and eventually ended up with just flight time, battery voltage and RSSI displayed which was all I really wanted..... it then occurred to me I could get all that from a "SuperSimple OSD" (it'll even display RSSI if I remove one of its resistors and use the BAT2 connector on the OSD) so that's whats going in the V2, soooo glad I wont have to pin solder another soddin fiddly miniOSD :sweating:

Itll be using ZMR250 base and arms again but without the built-in PDB (there just isn't enough justification for the weight it adds), instead you can just see the Matek nestled underneath the Rx.











the rest of the hardware:

cc3d nano (keeps things small but I'm also looking at a couple of other micro sized FCs as I wont be needing the benefit of the cc3ds main and flexiport for the OSD anymore)
a set of 22xx or 23xx motors (so I can have my aggressive props back)
Eachine 1000tvl compact cam(works well in the V1 so Ill use another)
Eachine Vtx03 72ch switchable(same again)
LDpower 15amp escs (good solid performers but may upgrade these along with the motors)

estimated weight comes in around 20-30g less than the V1 and that was only 362g without battery so that'll be a nice small bonus to performance hopefully, not that I could complain about the V1, even with the 1806 motors its a evil ickle bugger.

Frame should arrive tomorrow, the cam, osd and VTX shouldn't be far behind so I can see this fully built and in the air before the end of the week if I'm lucky :frantic:

....so far the missus hasn't cottoned on :whistling:
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Re: new design
« Reply #41 on: June 07, 2017, 14:39:06 »
parts turned up :azn...... impatience kicked in :frantic:








url for an image


don't have the OSD, CAM or VTX yet but figured that doesn't have anything to do with whether it can fly or not so heyho whatthehell slapped it together temp style, zip tied the overly long esc wires, threw on some crappy 5030 props I had for the time being and ventured out into the back garden were I discovered the winds were gusting at 20-25mph.

using my own made up reasoning I decided aslong as I keep it below the fence line Ill avoid most of the wind and just do some basic hover tests just to see if there's anything REALLY wrong with it :hmm:



not bad considering the crap props, zero tuning, high winds and sloppy zip tie'ing :laugh:

least I know it all locks together nice and firm, no real signs of vibe issues and even with the escs limiting me to using 3s on 1806 2300kvs with duff props its still got plenty of guts (I barely half throttled it in that vid and it shot up over the height of the roof, not my cleverest move with a basically untested frame in high winds but in my defence I certainly wasn't expecting it to be that frisky)
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Re: new design
« Reply #42 on: June 07, 2017, 14:54:39 »
oh as suspected the weight came in at.....



temporary image host
« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 15:19:19 by shawdreamer »
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Re: new design
« Reply #43 on: June 10, 2017, 16:55:03 »














only really did the most basic of cable management as flight testing was a priority....

fine ....... because I'm an impatient tw4t and just wanted to get it in the air.....happy now?

for those who are familiar with the RX Ive used you'll probably wondering why it looks the way it does, well I only need to have one set of pins supplying power and the rest were just taking a signal so I went snip happy with my wire nips and disposed of all the un-needed pins which inturn allowed my to drastically shrink the RX's height down.... in hindsight I could have just opted for a mini PPM rx but its what I had knocking about and tbh I still like my pwm setups..... I know, that's sooooo 2010'ish :rolleyes:

as for the supersimple OSD, well it gives me everything I need, voltage, flight time and once Ive cut a circuit trace and removed a specific resistor it'll even give me a pretty accurate Rssi reading

the PDB's a run of the mill Matek which gives me 5v & 12v feeds for the various bits while keeping wiring easier and locked down.

the Cam and Vtx are both Eachine brand gear, the Cam being a 1000tvl usually found in their higher spec RTF models (fantastically clear cam and makes for a excellent FPV cam), the Vtx is their newer Xtx03 which while being 72ch(including Raceband) is also switchable between 25Mw/50Mw/200Mw, ontop of that it has great signal strength even in 25Mw mode and using the tiny Dipole its supplied with (its attached with a Ipex connector so can be easily switched out without fiddly soldering later)

The FC is a good old reliable CC3d Nano (again its what I had knocking about) but tbh I'm a big fan of CC3d's, they've never let me down so I place quite a bit of faith in them, design will however happily take any FC with a 35mmx35mm board size and even accommodate a FC&PDB stack setup if that's the preference.

the alarm is a simple 3s lipo alarm.... leds show battery cell condition, beeper annoys the sh1t out of you when battery is low..... what more do you need?

and finally.... poke the antenna through the canopy, drop it into place, tighten down a couple of bolts underneath (which also pass through the lower landing feet plate) and presto.....done.











one fully enclosed 250 fpv quadcopter that flies like a dragonfly after three lines of coke even on a 60c 3s but weighs under 465g, as you can surmise............ I'm quite pleased with it :laugh:

ps, currently printing a newer version of the lower pate that can incorporate a addressable led strip (yes I know the CC3d cant do that but Ill be using a strip that can be manually set by a small micro button on its rear)







upload widget
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ViceVersa250 XL
zmr250Hybrid
https://www.thingiverse.com/shawdreamer/designs

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Re: new design
« Reply #44 on: June 10, 2017, 18:19:59 »











temporary photo upload


press the rightmost led to change between 8 colour options....well 7 & white, or if FC allows, hook the din wire into the board and use its addressable functions.
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Re: new design
« Reply #45 on: June 21, 2017, 15:01:30 »
well the reaper V.2 has been flying for over a week, and doing so without anything Id really call an issue, even in its current 3s limited format its a very nippy flyer and a great little acro ship (even if I cant get my flips and rolls as crisp as a 4s setup gives me).

Ill likely swap out the power system for a 4s capable jobbie at a later date but until then.........

...... I need something to do!

so obviously, time to design something new :whistling:

I havnt gave this design a name yet as to be honest I cant think of one that matchs its looks or style.

Ive been building alot of frames with a heavy tendency toward 3d printed parts which tbh Im happy to do as their tough and totally customizable to my own tastes and spec, that said theres nothing wrong with using a bought frame, infact their invariably tougher then anything with a large amount of 3d parts, the only problem I have with that approach is that no matter how much you tailor your ship to your preferred specs it still looks pretty much the same as the next one and that prickles at my male ego :embarrassed.

however in the spirit of honesty I have to admit that out of all my frames the one thats displayed the greatest level of durability is my good old mostly stock ZMR250 frame, thats mainly of course due to the fact that its made nearly entirly out of Carbon Fibre.... and thats what led to this new design.

I swallowed my designing pride a forced myself to limit just what printed parts Id use and even when used they would be minimalistic and purely functional.

for this one Ill be cutting and shaping all my own Carbon parts which I havnt done in a while so should be.....erm.... interesting?

the 2mm thick 3k CF plate I picked up a couple of weeks ago which I bought for a reason that now totally alludes me :shrug:, oh well itll happily serve as the upper and lower plates aswell as the motor mounts for this build....




and the first "rough" concept design...






My hope is that with the minimalistic approach on this Ill see it weigh in at the same or less than my previous design did (namely the reaper V.2 at 363g with 1800mah battery) though Ill be happy if they more or less match weight wise as obviously this newun should be much more rugged with it.

so barring the handful of already printed parts Ive already done and a set of revised motor mounts currently on a print run as I type there's little of nothing more to report on this one till I make a start on the CF cutting.











make url for image


the only other thing I can think of is a list of possible hardware,

Im thinking stacked FC and 4in1esc to keep the wiring down to an absolute minimum while saving on individual esc clutter, dont want to get to expensive just yet so Ive narrowed it down to three options, all will utilize a 20a BLHeli-s 4in1...  F3 Acro 6DOF, Naze32 6DOF or a good old CC3d (which is my usual "go-to" but not set in stone this time round).

the motors Im thinking 2205 2600kv's but unlike my usual tendency to use RacerStars in such cases Im currently mulling through other options.

the cam will be a Eachine 1000tvl ccd as I used on for the ReaperV2 and its an awsome fpv cam, great light handling and shocking clarity and colour, its also very compact (the depth of the frame makes foxeer and runcams pretty unusable without them looking out of place)

the Vtx will be a Eachine TX801 72ch switcable, Ive not used one of these before but I like the amount of switchable options, as low as 0.01mw (which should be great when your setting up and dont wanna mess with other flyers fpv feeds) right through 5/25/50/200/400 and upto 600mw, all from a quick tidy button press and no fiddly dip switching....oh and a nice digital display so you know what your doing, Ill be interested to see how it works out tbh.

I was just about to sign off of this post then but I heard the printer chirping its little "Im done ere" tone so a quick tidy up around the edges and slot it onto the tube for a test fit with a fecked motor I use for mocking up and....



theres still a 2mm cf mount plate to go under that but....

in the immortal words of George formby..... thas turned out quite nice again ~~
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Re: new design
« Reply #46 on: June 21, 2017, 18:14:31 »
well atleast no one can accuse me of slothfulness, Ill just add the progress photos and fill in the narrative later as I between cutting out the motor mount plates and waiting for my printer to finish printing the main plate hole template....




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Re: new design
« Reply #47 on: June 21, 2017, 20:16:42 »
A single layer 0.3mm print worked spot on as a hole template, it also guaranteed that what was shown in the STL design is what Id be getting, saved me meticulously sitting there with something sharp and pointy and a ruler marking out all the hole positions....twice



drilled out the absolute essentials for bolting the frame together  as I forgot to order some carbide drill bits and as anyone who's had to drill a decent amount of holes through pure CF board will testify, CF can eat HSS bits like party snacks :rolleyes:, have to wait on some Carb bits Ive ordered in and a couple of perma-grit files for tidying up afterwards.

but all said and done.....






....frame alone with all printed & cf parts weighs in at 162g right now so that gives me roughly 200g's for the hardware if I want it to atleast match the ReaperV.2 for weight, this might become quite the little beasty with the right hardware though :evil.
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Re: new design
« Reply #48 on: June 22, 2017, 15:35:00 »
just a quick mock up now the frames bolted up and rigid...




occured to me though that as Im using tubular arms that with just a little modification and some elongating of the fixing holes were the bolts pass through the arms I could make the whole angle of the motors adjustable, something along the lines of this....




imageupload


might make for "interesting" flight charagteristics :laugh:, if nothing else it'd help with the frames angle of attack when in forward motion, landing and take ofs though....not so much lol, certainly seems beneficial to the pro's.

either way Ive realised I have enough raw materials to build two of these frames so instead of waiting for the drill bits and files required to finish adding holes to the plates I might forgo the further holes on this one (the additional holes are for wire fixing points and the like so not essential to the frames ability to fly) I might simply use this one purely as a test rig and possibly/likely a crash test dummy ::)

any thoughts/opinions welcome people! ~~
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Re: new design
« Reply #49 on: June 22, 2017, 22:20:11 »
hmmmm

wasn't to happy with how close the props were to the top of the arms and motor mounts (roughly 2-3mm) which though not disastrous if I use rigid type props like the 5045 tri's I use on two of my other 250's, such as these on my ZMR.





but would leave me concerned with using the 5040 tri Dals I was planning on using, any serious flex during heavy acro might see a prop clip the arm which obviously wont end well so I redesigned the mounts to lift the motors higher (about 2mm) and added bottom CF cover/reinforcement plates which make the mounts more solid while protecting the motor base, shaft and mounting screws.








how to upload a photo on internet


the arms and mounts are now just as solid as the rest of the frame, the trade off though for the added ruggedness is obviously gonna be weight so the complete frame now weighs in at 191g, more than I wanted but if it gives the frame a higher degree of survivability I can live with it.

If I tot up a rough estimate of intended hardware I'm looking at...

140g for the Lipo (that's for my largest, heaviest 4s)
22g x4 motors
28g fc/esc stack
14g cam & vtx
and various bits of wire

I'm looking at 460g'ish  total weight....well that's nearly 100g more than my reaper weighs fully loaded (tbf that's the reaper with my lightest 4s) but on the upside this frame will be ALOT stronger and durable and If I perhaps opt for 1.5mm cf board for the second build that might see the weight come down again. :shrug:
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