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Author Topic: new design  (Read 4411 times)

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Offline shawdreamer

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Re: new design
« Reply #60 on: July 20, 2017, 13:38:49 »
Ill be updating this topic with build progress once it starts so pretty much all the info you'll need will be here somewhere.

As for using a Naza over a APM or Pixhawk I cant foresee any issue as the Naza is a step up from even the Pix which inturn is superior to the APM and as it stands even the APM should be enough to handle this frame design demands.
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Offline shawdreamer

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Re: new design
« Reply #61 on: July 23, 2017, 11:43:43 »
riiiiiiiight

due to my impatience in regards to waiting for carbon plating I decided to do a little remixing of the 550 design.

Instead of holding off till my carbon fibre plates turn up and I can get some workroom space back to cut them I decided to utilise my old 450 alien x-mode frame Id be considering re-building.




only really want the top and bottom plate so whipped off the arms and standoff's and shelved them.

next I did some minor part re-designing to make the original designs usable on the x-mode's plates...





wont be as tough and pretty as the carbon fibre version Ill make for the Brother-In-Law but will surfice for myself till I get round to making a second set of carbon plates.

started prototyping straight away and have a more or less solid setup already...




see how the parts hold up in ABS for now, theyve been designed to cope with the stresses so they should be fine but I intend to switch out to Petg for the full carbon plate frame just to give that added bit of security.

rather than undersling a battery setup Im considering saddle bagging two 3000mah 3s/4s to keep the frame more balanced across the horizontal, lower drag profile and keep the bottom clear for a 3-axis gimbal, have to give that more careful thought once the tubing for the arms turns up and I can see if theirs any issue with them swung back in storage position.

so far though Im pretty pleased but as with any frame....its all about how she fly's at the end of the day.
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Offline shawdreamer

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Re: new design
« Reply #62 on: July 23, 2017, 19:51:56 »
ok, ironed out a couple of design issues and reprinted a completed set of parts for the plates...









high res image hosting


carbon fibre tubing should arrive tomorrow (If HK's 24hr delivery holds true still) then I can cut em to size, add some motor mounts and slot it all together ready for the electronics and motors as they arrive :frantic:
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Offline shawdreamer

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Re: new design
« Reply #63 on: July 24, 2017, 16:25:21 »
whoopwhoop....






sooo tempted to leave the arms that long (with motor mounts in place it'd be a 700 frame size) so I can consider some seriously stupid big props, but think Ill trim em back till its a 500 sized frame and not get ahead of myself.
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Offline Dippi

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Re: new design
« Reply #64 on: July 24, 2017, 17:09:44 »
....
sooo tempted to leave the arms that long (with motor mounts in place it'd be a 700 frame size) so I can consider some seriously stupid big props, but think Ill trim em back till its a 500 sized frame and not get ahead of myself.

Questions -
1: Since you have printed the arm holders, the parts on the central plates, was the job difficult, expensive and time-consuming?
2: What is thickness of the rods and how much did they cost and from where were they purchased (i think you had mentioned that in some post, not sure)?
3: Is it a H or a X frame?
4: Are you going to build the motor mounts or order them?
5: What might be the final cost of this build?
6: Will you build such frame for others?
Thanks

Offline shawdreamer

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Re: new design
« Reply #65 on: July 24, 2017, 23:23:01 »
Questions -
1: Since you have printed the arm holders, the parts on the central plates, was the job difficult, expensive and time-consuming?not really (for all three points) "difficult" but thats in terms of my own perspective, I have the benefit of an engineering background and quite alot of experience with designing such things,
 expense wise its cost me what little bit of filament Ive used to make the parts (a 1kg roll of ABS can be gotten for £14 and thatd make hundreds of these parts)and the plates off a x-mode alien frame (if I was to buy one now its £11 in most places) and some CF tubing for around £12, time wise, it took me a day to come up with a working prototype but again that has alot to do with previous experience

2: What is thickness of the rods and how much did they cost and from where were they purchased (i think you had mentioned that in some post, not sure)?14mm OD CF, HobbyKing
3: Is it a H or a X frame?X
4: Are you going to build the motor mounts or order them?I used the same tubing in my last 250 frame so I could simply use the same design mounts I used on that frame but I may consider cutting some CF ones to better support larger motors
5: What might be the final cost of this build?around the £30 mark if I was to start from scratch without any materials
6: Will you build such frame for others? ThanksA second more Carbon Fibre based version will be going to my brother-in-law but much the same as all my designs I publish them to thingiverse where anyone can freely download them if they wish and make their own, though it might sound a little narcissistic I dont do it to profit myself in monetary terms.... I just enjoy doing it (something like an extension of my multirotor flying hobby if you like) and get a sense of pride when I see others using my designs and also enjoying them.

hope that helps.
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Offline shawdreamer

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Re: new design
« Reply #66 on: August 10, 2017, 12:26:33 »
KITCHENS DOOOOOOONE
<does a little dance>

which means I got my workroom back this morning and set about playing catch-up.

stuck the larger frame to one side for the time being and went back to sorting the 220 Dasher design (still no sign of the bloody CF plates I ordered off eGay though).

printed out the upper and lower spacer plates aswell as a revised body design...








1.5mm CF plates go ontop and bottom of the the red arms your seeing there, like so...



new upload photos


being as thats as pretty much as far as I can go with the frame till the CF shows up I decided to set about arranging the electronics guts....

MOTORS - Undecided but definetly be 4s rated
FPV GEAR - Eachine 1000tvl (love how clear the image is from these), a Eachine TX801 switchable Vtx (so far been bullet proof so I wont mess about there)
FC - have a brand new virgin Afroflight32 rev6 still in its baggy knocking about so might give that a go see how it handles it (dont recall if its 6dof or 10, Ill have to check if the Barameters present)
ESC - was originally planning on using some RacerStar RS20a Lites but leaned toward a more weight and space freindly 4in1, then during my parts digging I came across a whole pile of DYS 16a mini's I bought from HK a while back and totally forgot about, figured I might aswell try them out.... nothing to loose really...




post image


as you can see these things are diddy, my phone was struggling to focus on them their that small, they also come pre-pinned which though you might think makes life easier if you just buy some connectors and presto easy changeable escs but no... Ive no idea what these pins are designed for but they match no available connector I can find and I have pretty much every type knocking about so I set about "making them work for me" ::)




upload a photo


Diehards much like myself will probably be thinking "I wouldnt use connectors, Id direct solder" which tbh is what Id have opted for but when you begin to realise how fiddly these ickle feckers are to de-solder and resolder to what Id term satisfactory you start to understand, plus Ive not used these before so if any are faulty I wanna be able to simply pull em out and replace rather than risk de-soldering a second time (I doubt the solder pads would hold out to well even if Im careful), ontop of that I wanted to test each and every one before fitting them into the frame which the connectors make a doddle obviously...




again it also saves me any messy solder work if a motor is crossed/reversed on fitment (I can just pop out the JST header connector in the plug and swap it with the other.... job done.

As I said though Ive never flown any of these so they may very well be cack in which case they be coming back out and the RacerStars can go in with minimal fuss, see how they fair I suppose.

feels so good to be making progress again...... time to pee the missus off with some heavy parts purchasing :evil
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Offline shawdreamer

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Re: new design
« Reply #67 on: August 11, 2017, 16:17:42 »
STILL NO SODDIN CF BOARDS Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

oh well, I dug about in my material pile and found some reinforced fake cf fibreglass board so I decided to use that for the time being and atleast I could put together a physical prototype frame that'd let me see any issues Ive missed in the design process and I could get a good idea of its finished dimensions and overall appearance.

doesnt look to bad if I do say so myself....









upload your pics

doesnt seem like there's any real issue with the finished design, should work out fine even using the mini escs and not the 4in1, Pretty dam rigid too even with the FG and not the CF plates (the CF should make it a absolute tank :laugh:)

ps. the electronics there are purely my mock up stuff, only used to confirm dimensions, not finished article.
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Offline Bajadre

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Re: new design
« Reply #68 on: August 11, 2017, 16:51:05 »
Looking good matey  :cool:  ~~
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Offline shawdreamer

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Re: new design
« Reply #69 on: August 29, 2017, 16:13:37 »
think Ive got all the Dashers electronics together now (barring the vtx and cam which havnt shown up or I forgot to order.... Im not sure which), so I mounted it all together to make sure nothings clashing or needs addressing before I full build, thankfully everything seems good to go so If I can be arsed I might start it later or maybe tomorrow....










upload host


AUW with everything onboard (+vtx/battery) comes in more or less smack bang on 400g, tbf there though the FG fake Carbon board Ive used is alot more weighty than genuine CF of the same thickness(or even thinner as CF is much stronger) so id expect about 50g's off that weight (optermistic but possible with thinner CF board).

even if I dawdle abit on the build I can see her being airbourne for the weekend atleast :crossfingers:
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Offline shawdreamer

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Re: new design
« Reply #70 on: September 16, 2017, 19:25:25 »
not really a "build" as such but along the same lines....

my adapter design to make Dji spark folding props usable on other platform.




first pics show a simple hinge setup to use the dismantled spark blades on a 5mm shaft (the spark blades are held on with a very simple push fit pin which makes them very easy to remove and refit.... and coincidentally "rob for another quad" :laugh:

the second lot of pics show a more complicated design for common 1806 motors that generally need a adapter for their tops to fit 5mm shaft props (like the DYi's Im using their), this design fully utilizes the sparks "twist and lock" style setup with no need for dismantling anything, just slot em on, twist, go fly.

design needs a bit of fine tune fettling yet but seems like it might be a winner, once Im satisfied nothing gonna randomly come loose or fly off Ill make up a whole set and take em for a few test flights.
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Offline shawdreamer

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Re: new design
« Reply #71 on: September 17, 2017, 15:38:10 »
well pretty much finished the 1806 versions (was actually a fair bit of tweeking to get them as good as I wanted....

My Reaper V1 will serve as my guinea pig this time round, only using a 3s 70c for this test as tbf I dont need to be adding to much power into what could very well be a disastrous situ if the maiden go's wrong :laugh:










free photo web hosting


and do they actually fly?......



tis raining on and off so could only do a quick maiden test flight but generally Id say its looking good, granted it aint to punchy on 3s but I wasnt expecting it to be tbh, hovers around the 50% mark which is better than what I expected, I look forward to seeing how it'll fair with a 4s.... hopefully get a chance later.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 15:43:52 by shawdreamer »
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Offline shawdreamer

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Re: new design
« Reply #72 on: September 19, 2017, 13:13:18 »
just did three separate sessions with 4s 1400mah 65c multistars using the reaper v.1 still and I can happily report getting a solid 10mins of flight time even when caining it and the 4s obviously gave me back some of my punchout (though no were near what my usual tri's do)

dont think thats to bad on a frame that weighs in at 320g w/o battery and around 430-440g AUW in comparison to the Spark (which these props are made for) with a AUW of 300g.

another minor bonus I wasnt aware of though is these little feckers are Poly Carb and not Nylon like Id first thought... should make em pretty durable.

now Im sorta debating whether to go the whole hog and make a clone of the spark frame itself just for the hell of it :evil
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Offline shawdreamer

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Re: new design
« Reply #73 on: September 19, 2017, 13:23:26 »





ooooooo so tempting
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Re: new design
« Reply #74 on: September 19, 2017, 22:44:05 »
hmmm was suprisingly less complicated than I thought it would be to take the original design and chop it up to make it 3d printer freindly....

I present the "the Doji-Eye Spak"





I may even have all the fundamental parts electronics wise knocking about to actually throw this thing together so think I might just use up a few remaining spare partial filament reels and print one out tomorrow to see how it looks.
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Re: new design
« Reply #75 on: September 20, 2017, 14:05:29 »
well somewhat annoyingly the only colour ABS I have in at the mo with sufficeint amount to make an entire prototype is erm............ pink :banghead:.

twas a roll incorrectly delivered to me an age back and the seller just said to keep it after refunding me so I chucked it to the back of the filament roll drawers in my workroom.

Oh well.... needs must........ and Im never intending to fly it so It can go in the bin straight after Ive used it to check dimensions and part fitment...







"look look daddy that gay mans got a DJi Spark"

"dont look son"


 :embarrassed :cry
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Offline hoverfly

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Re: new design
« Reply #76 on: September 20, 2017, 14:47:18 »
I think therefore i am,..... I'm pink therefore i'm spam... :rofl:
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Re: new design
« Reply #77 on: September 20, 2017, 15:09:36 »
I think therefore i am,..... I'm pink therefore i'm spam... :rofl:

the "Dodgy-Eye Spam"...... hmmmm possible frame name :hmm:
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Offline shawdreamer

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Re: new design
« Reply #78 on: September 21, 2017, 14:18:57 »
ok.... granted that its pink.... its coming together quite nicely nonetheless.










just the canopy to print now and it'll be the most girly Dji spark lookilike out there :(

dunno wtf to do about a camera for it though, it'll have to be something pretty compact whatever it is.
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Re: new design
« Reply #79 on: September 21, 2017, 14:49:29 »
ok.... granted that its pink.... its coming together quite nicely nonetheless.

just the canopy to print now and it'll be the most girly Dji spark lookilike out there :(

dunno wtf to do about a camera for it though, it'll have to be something pretty compact whatever it is.

I think it looks pretty good. Runcam split will fit it nicely.

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Re: new design
« Reply #80 on: September 21, 2017, 14:56:19 »
oh Im sure I can sneak a cam in there and even a vtx under the canopy (Ive got the electronics quite well sorted...theoretically) but itll be purely a fixed position job, no fancy gimbal mechanics.

I can make it look like a spark easy.... make it work like one........ not so much :laugh:

though....... Im guessing it'll probably eat a spark for breakfast when it comes to some serious acro flying (no bloody digital nanny getting in the way) ~~
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Re: new design
« Reply #81 on: September 21, 2017, 19:07:48 »
well, for what its worth....





Its only now Ive got it in my hand (singular as this things so small it only needs one hand to hold) its only now I realise just how small the spark actually is, I stayed almost exactly faithful to the overall dimensions of the genuine item, Infact I basically took a 360 scan of a genuine spark and first segmented it to make it viable for 3d printing, then hollowed out its insides as much as I dared before grafting in mounting points and battery slide rails...

and still space is gonna be at a premium, with careful minimal wiring Im gonna squeeze in a 6dof fc, a dys 4in1 25a esc, and a switched vtx, I considered a Gps antenna but Ill put that on the back burner for a while (should be possible but Id rather get it into the air first),

battery wise Ive got a couple of 3s 65-75c candidates in mind, which are slim enough and small enough to fit the battery section, flight time wont be great but should be able to hold its own as Ill use the Spark folding prop setup on 1806's like Ive been testing on my reaper v1 over the last couple of days, the frame  comes in at under 70g so its auw shouldnt be anywhere near the reapers which fly's more or less well on the same power and props system Ill use.

oh and at some point I need to either print out a new canopy that isnt pink or buy another plastic paint colour so it aint all silver. ~~

oh and I almost forgot, Ill grab a set of motor mount led boards to give it that genuine look on the corners ;)

thoughts/opinions/suggestions anyone?
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Online ched999uk

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Re: new design
« Reply #82 on: September 21, 2017, 21:19:50 »
I do like reading this thread. Always great to see ingenuity.
Please keep posting.  Hope it flies well, looks great. In pink it sort of reminds me of the Pink Panther and the 3 wheeled car he used to drive  ::) Just realised it was 4 wheeled!!!

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Re: new design
« Reply #83 on: September 24, 2017, 15:29:48 »
would have updated earlier but only just finished building the pc I currently using after starting this morning (I love it when everything just go's smoothly and works the first time you switch it on! ~~)













using the first one as basically an "in-hand" mock-up I made some design alterations for what will be the first in-the-air frame.

split the lower battery base to make it work in the same fashion as the genuine spark does (obviously only visually not in the sense of "smart battery setup"), this'll hopefully save messing about with fiddly wiring during battery changes (just pop one off and slot on another), Ive got some 1000mah 70c's on the way that just squeeze into the split battery compartment and hopefully will give me atleast 5mins heavy flight time (optimistic I know), Im guessing the 1806's are probably gonna be overpowered on this little frame but Ill stick to the plan and use them initially and maybe drop down in size later if they dont pan out well.

camera wise Ive decided my only real option without some major design reworking and expensive mini electronics is to fall back on the use of a AIO cam of which I have a couple knocking about in drawers which will fit the task nicely if I lose their stock clovers and swap in a decent length antenna I can snake into and around the canopy cavity (again I know, not ideal but its the best workaround I can come up with without ruining the clean lines of the frame with a antenna jutting out somewhere), Ill just have to cross my fingers and hope the range doesnt turnout to be horrendous.... same goes for the RX antenna I suppose.

The canopy is now printed from PLA (not my first choice but I just couldnt stomach the pink anymore), added some side venting as unlike the spark that uses motor mounted esc's Ill be using a dys mini 4in1 located in the main body for obvious compactness reasons, the vents also double as usb access for the naze acro32 Ill use (inexpensive and quite solid on small builds in my experience.... plus I wont feel crap if I stuff the bloody thing straight away)

on a side note...... Im loving the wood grain effect on the PLA canopy which is a result of the horizontal printing position, I think I might try printing it in natural PLA and dying it with some brown stainer afterwards, would look smart if it takes on a wood effect.
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Re: new design
« Reply #84 on: October 08, 2017, 09:07:46 »
been a bit distracted of late so the spark clone got shelved but I returned to it once again yesterday and after some design polishing and finalising I made some adjustments to my original design to allow me to use 2205's (Im guessing they'll be grossly overpowering but I just wanna see just how ridiculous it can go :wack0)















all electronics are now seated on printed rubber dampners, including the motors, Ill forgo the use of folding props with the 2205's for now, Ill just get it in the air first and see about what to do next then.

255g w/o battery (which Im still bloody waiting on  :banghead:)
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Re: new design
« Reply #85 on: October 14, 2017, 12:28:46 »
riiiiight....

onto printing what should be the fully flight ready model, my electronics turned up to so Im pretty much sorted to build, printed out the final revision of the main body last night and just dry built up the internals just to double check clearances and spacing etc....








snug but thats just how it needs to be.



motor cables are fed through the arms directly into the body and under the DYS20a 4in1 esc




battery bay as is but Im currently printing a revised version to simplify the first flight build a bit...




given that Ive up'ed the motors from original design I figured I best dampen them a bit so printing a set of these to soften things up a bit...




cobbled this little fella together last night while I was waiting on the main body print...



TX03 switchable AIO I had knocking about, did a quick and dirty aerial swap from the stock clover to a whip (I know I know isnt that going backward but theres no way I can use a clover without it jutting out the frame somewhere which will ruin the look of the whole thing), this way I can coil the whip inside the canopy (again I know its not an ideal approach but its a case of "what will work for now").... granted it wont have the range of the clover but a few quick tests showed it was good for about 50m without breakup so that should do me fine.

just a few bits left to print now (cam mount, battery bay, canopy) and I should have the frame parts done and ready to go together tonight hopefully.

all go's well she should look something like this....


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Re: new design
« Reply #86 on: October 14, 2017, 15:01:56 »
Looking good  ~~
Wasdale X, Ow that hurt

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Re: new design
« Reply #87 on: October 15, 2017, 00:12:44 »
just a quick one before I pack it in for the night...... (the missus has been complaining that I havnt been coming to bed and been "messing about with your quads all night" :rolleyes:..... women tsk).





thats everything, FC, 4in1Esc, RX, CAM, Motors, Battery, Cabling etc, barring the minor grams of the props Im looking at near on 300g AUW, was about what I expected tbh.

tomorrow Ill look at wiring, Im not looking forward to the motor wiring to the 4in1 tho, its gonna be tight and fiddly even at the best of times but given that theres abviously the usual faffing about getting the motor wiring the correct way for motor rotation I can see a good long hour of frustrated swearing ahead :embarrassed.

really want this in the air before monday though as we've got severe wind warnings here for then (50mph winds apparantly) and the missus just HATES me indoor hover testing (women double-Tsk)
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Re: new design
« Reply #88 on: October 15, 2017, 07:15:37 »
ok so I waited for the missus to nod off and snuck back down to "mess"...

did all the wiring in one hit (including the inevitable "motor wire swapping" on the usual 50% of the motors :rolleyes:)

fired it up and everything sprang to life nicely.

flashed the latest version of CF onto the naze and it booted back up as it should.

rechecked motor rotations.... everything peachy.





dug out my 9x and set about configuring the rx.......

........

or maybe not?........

Im not getting a signal from the rx??, no channels showing response in cleanflight either???

tried a different "known good" rx.... still nothing?

Now Ill admit Im not a big naze user (prefer my CC3d's if Im honest) so Im kinda stumped now.....what am I missing here?, is there some setting in CF I was supposed to config so the board excepts pwm maybe?

maybe someone can shed some light on why my TGY 9x, FlySky r6b, Naze32 rev6 combo doesnt seem to be getting along?
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Re: new design
« Reply #89 on: October 16, 2017, 22:45:11 »
well despite the rather annoying FC/RX issue, for all intensive purposes the design and build are pretty much done.

Im just gonna swap out the naze for a cc3d when it arrives as this is the quickest way to resolve the issue Im having trying to get my tgy9x pwm receiver  to talk with the naze (Ive also ordered a new module for the tx but thats on a slow boat from bangkok :rolleyes:), the cc3d in the meantime will be a quick pnp job to fit and will get the frame in the air asap.

heres the finished item which Im just itching to get in the air now (Im having to resist scavenging a fc from one of my other airworthy frames :banghead:)...












AUW - 304g



so im reasonably happy with it..... aslong as it flies aswell as Im hoping that is :hmm:.
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