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  • #1 by ched999uk on 12 Sep 2017
  • I can fly my f450 with naza FC (gps and attic mode inc fpv)  but my 5" Martian3 is proving difficult.
    Only trying los in horizon mode but after about 12 packs still finding it difficult to control. I think my fingers are not good at small movements.
    I am trying to practice by flying round a tree and round a big plant pot.
    Any tips to aid me progressing to fpv and then acro?
    Thanks
  • #2 by Bajadre on 12 Sep 2017
  • I started just doing fig 8s infront of me matey til I could go wider and further etc my eyes aren';t the best so I don';t venture out too far in LOS ill send it in FPV tho  :laugh:
    one day ill have google problems and be quite far out  :sweating:  :sweating:
  • #3 by shawdreamer on 12 Sep 2017
  • In gps and attitude mode the fc is basically doing the majority of the workload and all your doing is giving it basic commands that it then interprets into the likely desired movements.

    in horizon there';s obviously less fc aided correction, especially in large scale movements that the fc typically deals with using the gps as reference.

    as such you just need to practice, practice, practice till your fingers develop the muscle memory needed to overwrite the lazy inputs youve been doing with the fc dealing with the bulk of the flying.

    for now though Ive found that alot of people I see that mostly flying phantoms, naza frames and similarly equipped GPS types often display what I can only describe as "lazy finger syndrome" when they have a go of one of my frames that Ive usually left in horizon (or angle if I remember to change modes before handing the TX to them)
    There stick control often seems awkward and slow, in many cases it almost looks like its their first time holding a RC TX :laugh:, my advice to them first off the bat is to adjust their way of holding the sticks, rather than the standard phantom fliers "thumb on the tip" approach which is not as accurate imho I tell them to instead "pinch" with thumb and finger on the sticks.
    The immediate difference is notable..... even if they do continue to flap at the difference in frame response, If you havnt tied that method then give it a go, it';ll give you much lighter control of small inputs which are alot more important in smaller non gps/attitude frames.

  • #4 by Cheredanine on 12 Sep 2017
  • Hi mate, painless somewhere has a 10 step or 8 step learning program which is very useful for Los

    I would ask are you gonna fly Los of fpv or both.
    Nowerdays I only fly fpv.
    I learned to fly Los in angle/horizon. I then transitioned to fpv, I think most of my time spent flying Los was a waste of time tbh, once you have kind of instinctively picked up stick movements, which takes about an hours flight time with something small and crappy in the house, then Los is a different skill from fpv. If you wanna fly fpv only, all you need to do is instinctively move the sticks, beyond hat don';t mess about with Los

    If you are gonna use Los, stick in horizon mode, go through painless';s step program for learning to fly a quad copter and practice

    If you are only gonna do fpv, get the goggles on asap and fly circles or squares and get used to it.

    If you are finding control other than throttle a problem and you want it eased down, post your pids page as a screenshot and I will make some suggestions

    If throttle is a problem explain what you would like to do with it (e.g. Just cut some top end off or use the lower part with more granularity/less increase)
    Also what is your mid throttle and expo?/have you done anything with it?
  • #5 by ched999uk on 12 Sep 2017
  • Cheers. I want to do fpv but thought I would start of in Los so I could get a feel of sensitivity.
    FPV is what I want to do with this quad.
    Throttle mid point set to 0.4 (hovers at 35-40% throttle) and throttle expo at 0.6.
    Pids are completely stock. They look good in Blackbox, no real overshoot or oscillation.  Screen shot difficult at moment.
    Maybe just be better to get goggles on and overcome the fear :-).
    Would you say best to fpv straight into acro or angle mode?
    Main problem I have is not used to very minor movements that have such big reactions. When it gets away from me I panic and make way too big movements.
  • #6 by Cheredanine on 12 Sep 2017
  • Ok mate, so I don';t tend to mess with throttle expo, any Chang of aspect comes from rc rates and s-rates both of which I turn up,

    Unless your problem is hovering/shooting up in the air, stay away from throttle and expo.
    Particularly if you are gonna fly fpv, hovering isn';t really something you do in that, and the forward movement regulates the verticle to a point where it is less sensitive.

    If your sensitivity is on any stick movement other than throttle-
    As a basic rule rc rates controls sensitivity across the range, s-rates controls sensitivity at the stick ends, increasing s- rates incereases the expo effect on roll, pitch and yaw

    So if your current concerns are about small movements/ mid stick sensitivity, then decrease rc rates, you can always compensate for stick ends by adding srates

    All that said, there are easier ways to tame - use less aggressive props or lower cell count.

    I don';t want to give you duff advice, you only learn once, so above post was how I learned, I think if I was going through it again I would, once I was used to sticks from a husband or e010, skip straight to fpv.

    Use a big park and take small steps just to push your confidence levels a little each time.

    I think the way I would approach it is do a couple of Los flights in angle or horizon just to get used to it.

    Do a very short flight or two fpv in angle, (take off, fly 20 yards away from me, turn and fly back and land)
    Once I was used to that I would try fpv in rate mode, just a gentle flight in a wide area, fly gentle squares (once you try rate mode you will find cruising fpv in it is actually the easiest, mainly because it doesn';t require much stick input) just relax and get used to it, initially use seperate flights to do opposite directions, don';t try to fly anywhere in particular, just get used to keeping the quad in the air, moving forwards and turning it
    (This is ideally done in a wide open area with short grass so you don';t have to avoid anyone and if you ditch it isn';t difficult to find)

    Once you are confident, you just try something new.
    I used to try every week to master something I couldn';t do. You very rapidly run out of new tricks

  • #7 by ched999uk on 12 Sep 2017
  • Thanks for that thorough post. I have had a fair bit of practice on hubsan and E010 indoors. I think half of it is just me being scared :)
    I have had couple of goes fpv on angle mode and it was difficult judging height hence me doing more practice los.

    Think I will just go for fpv acro and try to be gentle :)

    If rain stays I will just try and rack up some stick time with goggles and fpvfreerider.
    Thanks again for the advice, it';s very helpful.
  • #8 by Two-Six on 13 Sep 2017
  • That';s weird, I thought you could fly FPV.  The big one is do try to get a spotter because if you land it away in a field/hedge you will might find it tricky to find it again.  It probably won';t be where you think it is.  Another thing, you need to trust your FPV set up and trust what are seeing. 

    Use the force Ched!

    Apart from that, its not really very hard.  Start in a big open area and try to fly it like a plane with some forward speed on and try to land it like a plane, doing a circuit, dropping the forward speed close to the ground "on finals" then just drop it.  It will be fine.

    Also I would really recommend pinching the sticks and having a practice in a sim.  You can get loads more control and precision.  I can';t do thumbs at all, no finesse what so ever.
  • #9 by ched999uk on 13 Sep 2017
  • Cheers mate. I can fly my f450 fpv no problem :)
    Just this little Martian3 is so much more powerful my fingers can';t do the little movements.
    I will try pinching and get a few hrs in the sim with acro.
    Thanks.
  • #10 by trebor on 13 Sep 2017
  • First time I tried it I had the camera set too high, all I could see is sky ! My mates were shouting turn it round and come back lol. Which ways back ? I ended up in 2 feet deep of a "BIG" wheat field near the middle. Make sure you can adjust the camera angle, fit a buzzer 👍
  • #11 by ched999uk on 13 Sep 2017
  • First time I tried it I had the camera set too high, all I could see is sky ! My mates were shouting turn it round and come back lol. Which ways back ? I ended up in 2 feet deep of a "BIG" wheat field near the middle. Make sure you can adjust the camera angle, fit a buzzer 👍
    Buzzer fitted and tested :)
    I have a nice field to try and the wheat has been harvested so just stubble :) wind a bit high at moment hopefully calm down later if not going to practice pinching on sim.
    Cheers
  • #12 by ched999uk on 14 Sep 2017
  • Cheers everyone. So found a break in the rain and managed to get my 2 packs in. Pinching helps lots, thanks. Other than just a quick take off and system check flew both packs through the goggles only. Throttle control much easier through the goggles. Had a few tumbles and a few brief goes at acro.
    Getting much better feel for responsiveness now.  Pleased with feeling like I am making progress.
    Packs on charge now, hopefully get out again in hour or so.
    Thanks for all your help and advice.
  • #13 by Stactix on 15 Sep 2017
  • Cheers everyone. So found a break in the rain and managed to get my 2 packs in. Pinching helps lots, thanks. Other than just a quick take off and system check flew both packs through the goggles only. Throttle control much easier through the goggles. Had a few tumbles and a few brief goes at acro.
    Getting much better feel for responsiveness now.  Pleased with feeling like I am making progress.
    Packs on charge now, hopefully get out again in hour or so.
    Thanks for all your help and advice.

    As someone that';s quite new to acro, I';d reccomend jumping in with acro FPV.

    I started off with flying lots of toy micros, got freerider and learned to fly around the map acro.. Being able to stay low / fly around the course is something I suck at:p
    Due to wearing glasses & the glasses not fitting in my goggles I didn';t try flying FPV at first & tried acro LOS..
    Almost crashed 30 seconds in, panicked and large movement after large movement, Fortunately I was anticipating that & switched back to angle.. My initial thought was being able to fly the sim acro was pointless due to completely sucking LOS acro.
    Anyways, found out I could use my goggles without my glasses and tried acro after a couple of flights, realised quickly It wasn';t to bad. , as I was just flying nice & high around a field. The Sim helped alot!
    Thing that I now struggle with is flying through obstacles, whacked into a goal post two out of 4 attempts -.- & also flying low.. with 2.1mm lense I feel like I';m quite low then my spotter mentions that I';m 20metres high  :hmm:

    PS: Now, Despite flying 40 or so bats ACRO FPV.. I';m still just as bad at LOS ACRO  :frantic

  • #14 by hoverfly on 15 Sep 2017
  • Goalposts warp spacetime and the resultant gravity slope slides quads into the post.. :laugh:
  • #15 by Gav on 15 Sep 2017
  • Teach yourself how to fly.  Much better than someone else telling you how to do it.
    250 sized Quads are pretty resilient nowadays to crahes.
    Try helis (I learned on helis) spares ordered every week doh.
    Good luck n have fun

  • #16 by Cheredanine on 15 Sep 2017
  • Teach yourself how to fly.  Much better than someone else telling you how to do it.
    250 sized Quads are pretty resilient nowadays to crahes.
    Try helis (I learned on helis) spares ordered every week doh.
    Good luck n have fun
    Not sure I agree with that mate,
    I agree what works for one won';t necessarily work for another, although a slow basic approach that was traditionally recommended (Learn on a hubsan, then angle Los, etc) will get most people there eventually, but getting a raft of different recommendations may well give ideas and help.
    (Whilst one size doesn';t fit all, there are not different paths for everyone)
  • #17 by ched999uk on 15 Sep 2017
  • Teach yourself how to fly.  Much better than someone else telling you how to do it.
    250 sized Quads are pretty resilient nowadays to crahes.
    Try helis (I learned on helis) spares ordered every week doh.
    Good luck n have fun
    I agree that no one else can learn for you but tips from others who have been there done that can be very helpful.
    Sometimes it';s just about someone else saying you are doing it a sensible way. I don';t have anyone to fly with or bounce ideas off so, for me, people';s posts are very helpful.
    Since I have been trying the pinch technique my throttle control has improved greatly.
    I know helis are extremely difficult to fly, many years ago I has a hirobo shuttle ic heli. I was so scared of crashing it I never actually got it off the ground. Again I didn';t know anyone to give me pointers as it was before the internet no forums to help either. So I sold it.

    So for me any pointers that I am doing things right or wrong or even someone else saying they had the same problems helps me immensely and I am very grateful for the mruk members for their help.

    I will continue to slowly teach myself to fly with any assistance I can get. I am having fun and hopefully I will be proud of my achievements when I get through a whole pack in acro without tumbling across the grass :-) cheers mate.
    Happy flying.
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