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Author Topic: 3D Print Fail  (Read 1906 times)

Offline JeremyE

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2017, 13:25:12 »
That';s an interesting point. It';s worked for lots of people though. I guess the Malyan M150 alu bed stays flat enough. Even when manually adjusting the bed you';d have to take pinch points at 10';s of bed positions to set a fully accurate and average distance. I guess auto measuring the distance from the aluminium bed in the middle and at the 4 corners through the 3mm glass is generally good enough. Either that or people have only shared positive reports and not the failures.

I definitely don';t trust my bed. It definitely has a warp to it! I';m most likely going to be investing in this in a short time: http://tehnologika.net/Wanhao-duplicator-i3-composit-heated-bed-support-y-carriage-plate-reprap/

Offline nate80

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2017, 15:32:15 »
I definitely don';t trust my bed. It definitely has a warp to it! I';m most likely going to be investing in this in a short time: http://tehnologika.net/Wanhao-duplicator-i3-composit-heated-bed-support-y-carriage-plate-reprap/

Mine';s slightly out too.  Doesn';t help mine has a few score marks in to either.  Neither';s proved an issue with printing yet but I bought a replacement from hobbyking anyway.  Maybe I';ll grab one of the carriage plates too.

Offline pheasant_plucker

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2017, 16:39:37 »
Mine deviates by .015mm in the centre where it dishes down. this increases with heat.
I use a glass plate and found that securing it with clips actually bent the glass to the curve of the bed. Some sort of corner locator is the best way to secure it and remain flat.
It took a while for me to realize the glass was bending and i was getting intermittent first layer adhesion because of it.

Gerry
The man serving me in the canteen said "Look, You can see the face of Jesus in the Margarine" The Asian guy next to me replied "I can't believe it's not Budda"
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Offline Sweet Pickle

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #33 on: August 25, 2017, 17:17:00 »
Deffo do not give up on the Drylin bearings.
For me, the best cheap upgrade there is.
My printer is in the room next to where I sleep mind so quiet is always better.

Offline pheasant_plucker

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2017, 17:58:06 »
I have started to locate my glass plate with small dabs of thermal adhesive to compensate for the bent heated bed surface.
This displays just how bent the bed is. Note how it dishes in the middle. It';s 0.15mm out at the centre along the outer edge, it';s obviously more in the centre of the plate. All the dabs of adhesive are the same size, note the centre one.

Gerry
The man serving me in the canteen said "Look, You can see the face of Jesus in the Margarine" The Asian guy next to me replied "I can't believe it's not Budda"
http://www.namfc.co.uk/pictures/fly.gif

Offline Samslimer

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2017, 19:37:05 »

I';ve read that, in general, print speeds for PLA should be between 60 and 70 mm/s, so I';ve tried 60, 65 and 70.  I';ve combined that with Travel speeds of 100, 105, 110, 120 and 130 mm/s.  The faster the travel speed the worse the finish looked.  The print speed differences were inconclusive.


Slow it down, won';t effect the print time that much. Groot here was at 35mm/s 0.2mm layer<br />

<br />

<br /><br />

<br /><br />

<br /><br />

Designed an adjustable belt tensioner for the bottom y-plate, the reinforced y-plate has a design error offset on the center fitting.

 <br /><br />

« Last Edit: August 26, 2017, 20:04:58 by Samslimer »

Offline nate80

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2017, 19:42:34 »
I have started to locate my glass plate with small dabs of thermal adhesive to compensate for the bent heated bed surface.
This displays just how bent the bed is. Note how it dishes in the middle. It';s 0.15mm out at the centre along the outer edge, it';s obviously more in the centre of the plate. All the dabs of adhesive are the same size, note the centre one.

Gerry

Yep, that';s quite some warpage. You think a replacement upgraded undercarriage will solve the issue?


Slow it down, won';t effect the print time that much. Groot here was at 35mm/s 0.2mm layer<br /><br />

I';ve slowed my prints down to 40mm/s 0.2mm layer with good first results.  Good looking print.   :smiley:  That baby Groot must be one of the most printed 3D models ever!   :laugh:

Offline Samslimer

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2017, 19:59:09 »
Groot';s a big file. Lots of detail.

As I said before the standard feed arm and gear are awful, they slip and you get the extrusion problems you describe.

<br /><br />

Offline nate80

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #38 on: August 26, 2017, 23:18:01 »
Groot';s a big file. Lots of detail.

As I said before the standard feed arm and gear are awful, they slip and you get the extrusion problems you describe.

<br /><br />

That an upgrade part? Can I ask where you got it?

Offline Samslimer

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2017, 01:36:21 »
That an upgrade part? Can I ask where you got it?
It is. You';ll want a hardened drive gear as well. The standard setup is a horrible ribbed gear with a flat pressure roller that wanders all over. You';ll also need to calibrate the extrusion rate. With this, no more slipping and if you replace the hot end as well no more blockages. Just lovely consistent extrusion.

https://www.technologyoutlet.co.uk/search?page=2&q=micro+swiss&type=product

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Full-Metal-Upgrade-Edition-Extruder-Right-Left-Module-For-3D-Printer-/132307597390?var=&hash=item1ece25b84e:m:msxgbVIHfutqW9bMWlBwUQA

https://www.wanhaouk.com/collections/duplicator-4-parts/products/extruder-drive-gear

<br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />
<br /><br /><br /><br />
« Last Edit: August 27, 2017, 01:43:21 by Samslimer »

Offline pheasant_plucker

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2017, 08:15:00 »
Yep, that';s quite some warpage. You think a replacement upgraded undercarriage will solve the issue?

No, It';s the aluminium plate that is warping not it';s mounting. The glass plate will be flat just fit that but don';t clamp it so it distorts to the shape of the bed. My bed is probably a bit bigger than yours at 275mm*210mm so it will bend more but as we set the nozzle to between 0.1 - .02mm from the bed then .015 causes issues for me.

Gerry
The man serving me in the canteen said "Look, You can see the face of Jesus in the Margarine" The Asian guy next to me replied "I can't believe it's not Budda"
http://www.namfc.co.uk/pictures/fly.gif

Offline nate80

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2017, 14:36:32 »
No, It';s the aluminium plate that is warping not it';s mounting. The glass plate will be flat just fit that but don';t clamp it so it distorts to the shape of the bed. My bed is probably a bit bigger than yours at 275mm*210mm so it will bend more but as we set the nozzle to between 0.1 - .02mm from the bed then .015 causes issues for me.

Gerry

The carriage mount that holds the 4 adjustable height screws is known to easily bow though which, apparantly, can encourage the heated bed to warp. A replacement upgraded undercarriage might help the issue. Probably won';t solve it though unfortunately.

There shouldn';t be any worries about tempered or borosilicate glass distorting on a standard heated bed.  They are designed to be highly resistant to thermal shock and would need to be heated toward glass transformation temperature, which is many hundreds of degrees C.

Offline nate80

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2017, 14:48:09 »
It is. You';ll want a hardened drive gear as well. The standard setup is a horrible ribbed gear with a flat pressure roller that wanders all over. You';ll also need to calibrate the extrusion rate. With this, no more slipping and if you replace the hot end as well no more blockages. Just lovely consistent extrusion.

https://www.technologyoutlet.co.uk/search?page=2&q=micro+swiss&type=product

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Full-Metal-Upgrade-Edition-Extruder-Right-Left-Module-For-3D-Printer-/132307597390?var=&hash=item1ece25b84e:m:msxgbVIHfutqW9bMWlBwUQA

https://www.wanhaouk.com/collections/duplicator-4-parts/products/extruder-drive-gear

<br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br /><br />
<br /><br />
<br /><br /><br /><br />

Big thanks for sharing all that.   ~~  Much appreciated.  I';m a little confused about a couple things though.   :hmm:

Are the 3 top pics of metal extruder arms and mounts just 2 different versions of the same thing that I can choose between, or did you show both for a specific reason?  (sorry if that seems a dumb question, but I am really new to all this!)


And which is the best cooling block/hotend to buy from Technology Outlet?  Seems you can buy this hotted with slotted block:

https://www.technologyoutlet.co.uk/products/all-metal-hotend-with-slotted-block-for-wanhao-i3

which means you';ll need to also buy a .4mm nozzle like this:

https://www.technologyoutlet.co.uk/products/micro-swiss-nozzle-for-mk10-all-metal-hotend-only-a2-hardened-steel

Or you can buy this cooling block:

https://www.technologyoutlet.co.uk/products/micro-swiss-cooling-block-upgrade-for-wanhao-i3

and then you';ll also need to buy this hotend kit:

https://www.technologyoutlet.co.uk/products/micro-swiss-mk10-all-metal-hotend-kit


Is that right?

Cheers

Nate

Offline Sweet Pickle

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2017, 13:17:09 »
Ah, I love throwing other options into the mix and spending other peoples money.

If I was going to replace the drive/tool head I';d replace it with a Flexion extruder.
Pretty easy replacement, complete unit. Gives you much better control and use of flexible filaments.
You can do this without but it';s a ball ache. Where upgrades are concerned go big.....

Offline JeremyE

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #44 on: September 01, 2017, 14:50:53 »

Offline nate80

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #45 on: September 01, 2017, 18:31:02 »
Ah, I love throwing other options into the mix and spending other peoples money.

If I was going to replace the drive/tool head I';d replace it with a Flexion extruder.
Pretty easy replacement, complete unit. Gives you much better control and use of flexible filaments.
You can do this without but it';s a ball ache. Where upgrades are concerned go big.....

Haha. I looked at the Flexion kit, but I';m likely going to buy a new printer (possibly a Prusa i3 Mk2S) next year so I';m only spending small on the Malyan as a learning aid.

Offline nate80

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #46 on: September 01, 2017, 18:33:08 »

Offline nate80

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #47 on: September 12, 2017, 18:18:49 »

Offline JeremyE

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #48 on: September 20, 2017, 07:23:53 »

How have you attached the connector nut to the extruder carriage Jeremy?  Is it glued or did you drill the plastic housing or something?  I';ve looked at your photo a number of times but I can';t quite figure it out.  Or is it just held there by pressure?

Thanks.

Nate

A bit late to the reply party, but I have been in Sicily lazing about on the beaches.
I just jam it in there so that it is easy to remove and make filament changes.

Offline nate80

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #49 on: September 20, 2017, 11:48:26 »
A bit late to the reply party, but I have been in Sicily lazing about on the beaches.
I just jam it in there so that it is easy to remove and make filament changes.

lol, no worries. Thanks for the info.  :smiley:  Hope you had a relaxing time by the Med.  Sicily';s a place on my bucket list.

Offline nate80

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #50 on: September 20, 2017, 12:43:16 »

<br /><br />

I';ve been looking at coolers and I printed a cobra cooler for the Malyan M150 which works ok.  It';s quite badly designed though and didn';t fit right.  I had to get the soldering iron out and reshape the rear that fits over the lower X bearing holder, and even when it fits it sits about 1mm from the hotend.  Not great.

The design SamSlimer shared looks good.  I haven';t been able to find the design print file online though.  Anyone know where I can get it please?   :hmm:

Offline Samslimer

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #51 on: September 20, 2017, 20:23:28 »

Offline nate80

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #52 on: September 21, 2017, 22:51:35 »

Offline nate80

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #53 on: October 18, 2017, 17:44:33 »

Offline Samslimer

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #54 on: October 21, 2017, 19:26:56 »
Just thought I post the largest print build I';ve tried, stand for a Rift. Over 80 hours in total. Half as reel of PLA

https://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=586475IMG20171013085900487.jpg
3D Print Fail


https://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=318028IMG20171015005402097.jpg
3D Print Fail


https://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=482924IMG20171015005552185.jpg
3D Print Fail


https://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=385187IMG20171021185941504.jpg
3D Print Fail




Offline derekreber48

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #55 on: October 22, 2017, 12:31:11 »
I 3D printed this glider and it turned out good. I used PLA filament and use acetone to smooth it out. It flies great. Good luck with your 3D printing problem. For more help you can go through http://3dinsider.com/3d-printer-super-stratos-glider-build/.

Offline nate80

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #56 on: October 22, 2017, 18:45:47 »
Just thought I post the largest print build I';ve tried, stand for a Rift. Over 80 hours in total. Half as reel of PLA

https://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=586475IMG20171013085900487.jpg
3D Print Fail


https://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=318028IMG20171015005402097.jpg
3D Print Fail


https://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=482924IMG20171015005552185.jpg
3D Print Fail


https://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=385187IMG20171021185941504.jpg
3D Print Fail


Looking good Lee. 80 hours = 3 sleepless nights!  ;D
« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 18:50:47 by nate80 »

Offline nate80

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #57 on: October 22, 2017, 19:08:18 »
I 3D printed this glider and it turned out good. I used PLA filament and use acetone to smooth it out. It flies great. Good luck with your 3D printing problem. For more help you can go through http://3dinsider.com/3d-printer-super-stratos-glider-build/.

Nice looking glider model. Might print one of those myself. I didn';t know acetone could smooth out pla. Thought it was just abs prints. Will have to give pla a try if you had success.

The failed prints I experienced were only when I got started with 3D printers. The quality I';m getting now is very good and getting better all the time. A little experience coupled with some trial and error is the key, although due to the way the hobby evolves and develops I reckon there';ll always be more to learn. Plus, my machine is a cheap clone using some less than stellar parts, so a few more upgrades should improve things even further.

BTW, welcome to the forum. Why not pop to the welcome section and make a quick intro. Some really great members here, some of whom I';m sure would like to say hello.

Offline nate80

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #58 on: November 20, 2017, 19:27:36 »
Groot';s a big file. Lots of detail.

As I said before the standard feed arm and gear are awful, they slip and you get the extrusion problems you describe.

<br /><br />

Hi Lee.  It's been a while but I just got round to installing one of these all metal extruder upgrades (from banggood) to my Malyan M150.  It looks like it fits the 3D printer well from the outside, but I can't get the filament to pass through.  The lower filament hole seems to be drilled too far to the left (toward the heatsink).  The filament passes through between the bearing and the toothed gear but then it hits the top side of the metal feeder tube. The filament is too far over and won't feed into the tube within the cooling block.

This is the part I bought:

https://www.banggood.com/Full-Metal-Replicator-II-Upgrade-Edition-Extruder-RightLeft-Module-For-3D-Printer-p-1157796.html?rmmds=myorder&cur_warehouse=CN

Can I ask how you got yours to work?  Short of drilling a wider hole I'm stumped.

Cheers

Nate

Offline nate80

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Re: 3D Print Fail
« Reply #59 on: November 21, 2017, 20:24:09 »
Hi Lee.  It's been a while but I just got round to installing one of these all metal extruder upgrades (from banggood) to my Malyan M150.  It looks like it fits the 3D printer well from the outside, but I can't get the filament to pass through.  The lower filament hole seems to be drilled too far to the left (toward the heatsink).  The filament passes through between the bearing and the toothed gear but then it hits the top side of the metal feeder tube. The filament is too far over and won't feed into the tube within the cooling block.

This is the part I bought:

https://www.banggood.com/Full-Metal-Replicator-II-Upgrade-Edition-Extruder-RightLeft-Module-For-3D-Printer-p-1157796.html?rmmds=myorder&cur_warehouse=CN

Can I ask how you got yours to work?  Short of drilling a wider hole I'm stumped.

Cheers

Nate


Ignore my last post.  I got the pillar drill and Dremel out, enlarged and tapered the filament feed hole, and now it works perfectly.  Only issue is, now I've upgraded the extruder, ptfe tubing and nozzle the printer seems to be in need of some serious recalibrating.  The nozzle now oozes like a kids runny nose in winter!  Think the Igus Drylin bearings may need adjusting too (or new straighter rods purchasing!) as they are seriously stiff.