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Author Topic: Runner 250r Un-build!  (Read 196 times)

Offline fix3r

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Runner 250r Un-build!
« on: November 14, 2017, 18:37:37 »
So after making a mess of my Runner last night in the warehouse, wrecking it just a little! Thought id get some pics up of me stripping it down, so i can see how bad it actually is!
Which also lets me see how proprietary the thing really is!  :-/

Humiliating fail videos can be found here:http://www.multi-rotor.co.uk/index.php?topic=22358.0



Doesn't actually look as bad as it sounded when i posted the Vids last night!

Camera is definitely jiggered!  :thumbdown:
Not even sure id fit a non Walkera replacement as its a 5 lead connection rather than 4? (Unless the 5th lead is just a signal line to activate/deactivate which is mapped to the Gear switch)

Motor binding turned out to be a bit of dirt caught between the rotor and stator, so thats a bonus   ~~

Only 1 screw broken on battery plate, other 3 had somehow managed to strip out of the legs they are screwed into!


GPS mounting arm is ok.
Its just the drawer slide fitting at the top on the antenna disk/dome thats broken. think a bit of 3d printing should be able to fix that (although thats probably the cheapest part anyway about £4 for the arm and cover)

XT60 connector on the main board not damaged!
Board doesn't look damaged either but it looks like it was poorly soldered anyway as you can see how cleanly they had broken! The only damage on the pads is the +pad has peeled a little on one corner, there is a mirrored set of pads on the underside of the board so hoping that resoldering the XT60 in place and making sure i solder right through will be a good secure join!

Battery carriage (far left plate in the overview pic between the arms) does have a crack/crease in it at the rear left mounting point

@ shawdreamer  Pic 11 - Camera still mounted.
Didn't realise whilst it was in a flyable state but that is actually the maximum angle the camera can tilt to! its wedged against the mounting carriage at both the top and bottom.
I also thought i had it tilted back considerably more than that, but hadnt been looking at it from a profile view with having the guard on!

Edit: Sorry hit Post not Preview by mistake!

So i think it's turned out to be less wrecked than first thought  ~~.
I had already started printing an alternative frame i found on thingiverse, think i may give that a shot since it's already in pieces... Will need make up a gps mount for it as its for the non gps version, but everything else should drop right in! https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2012433
I cant even remove the gps antenna, if i recall the instruction correctly as it won't arm without having a gps lock!

So other than a camera, props and a bit of soldering i think it's all good really!  :crossfingers:

Still fancy having a go at a cheap diy build though ::)
Ya know, since i'm here now! Something that will take a beating lol
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 19:37:29 by fix3r »

Offline shawdreamer

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Re: Runner 250r Un-build!
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2017, 20:40:32 »
Not to sure about that printed design, my experience tells me that top plate (the large black section) will be terribly susceptible to torque stress, I'd have at the bare minimum included a couple of cf braces across its width to minimize twist.

As it stands I'd say its likely your gonna note some instability  when coming out of heavy turns with that as the main body twists and alters the motors lift dynamics and the fc is forced to compensate.

If by chance you do then you can always cut some 1.5mm bars/strips and fit em across between the arms yourself later, won't add any real fundamental weight but should solidify the plate somewhat.

PS... printing it in just Pla on a frame that size with that design, definetly not a good idea, you could very well find your new printed frame disintegrating mid flight if you push any hard turns without any warning, pla is terrible under torque stress, it'll literally shatter, by the looks of it the designer didn't do many if any field testing which is a must with frames like that. :hmm:
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 20:52:21 by shawdreamer »
550 custom H-copter
zmr250
Reaper250 V.1
Reaper250 V.2
ViceVersa250 XL
zmr250Hybrid
250 Twinboard
Dji Spark clone
https://www.thingiverse.com/shawdreamer/designs

Offline fix3r

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Re: Runner 250r Un-build!
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2017, 22:11:59 »
Think i got away with it!  :sweating:
Told the Mrs i was cleaning the dust out of it when she saw it scattered across the kitchen table in pieces  :whistling:

Ahh,
I doubt if I'd personally notice any instability with it at my present level unless it's something serious such as a motor dropping off.  :lipsrsealed oops, Jinx!

Yea I'm only printing pla and about to give nylon a shot, see if I can get it to stick to the bed! I don't usually keep my filament air tight after opening but know I will need to with nylon!
Was gonna give carbon a try but after your advice on cf pla I probably won't bother now! I don't want to mess about trying to make a heated enclosure for my Prusa to use abs either. Maybe on my next printer!

I just binned those parts that i had started, just peg them as more test prints!

Got the xt60 soldered on (properly this time) and got it put back together this afternoon minus the camera.
:hmm: With a bit of luck it'll help with COG a little and i won't need the battery just about falling out the back of the carriage!

However i've got an itch i need to scratch! Now the toolkit and soldering iron have been out
Mmmmm, i love the smell of rosin in the morning :azn

1. I now need to scratch that itch to tinker with something and the Runner just isn't gonna do it.
2. I don't really want to break this one again, managing to blag it the once was enough for me! (ok its a flimsy one but an excuse nonetheless  ::) )

Offline fix3r

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Re: Runner 250r Un-build!
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2017, 23:54:58 »

You recommended a zmr250 frame as a cheap replacement. I take it that would also be a good starting point for a first build too?
I did come across another similar priced frame a Q330 and the arms looked a lot more robust, whats your take on that? Would this also be a suitable starting point.

So i have the Devo 7 TX and i already have 4x 2.2ah 3s batteries, so looking to make use of those.
Don't plan on flying FPV anytime soon but would like to have the option available, but for now just use the cam to record my flights.
Perhaps something a little more of a 'relaxed' flying experience than 'race', but still have a bit of Oomph available.
If possible eek out a little more flight time per battery?
More fly time per battery would be good, just as i'm getting the hang i have to stop to replace batteries lol.

So i was thinking...

Eachine 1000tvl fpv cam - £10.13 (10.4g)
https://www.banggood.com/Eachine-1000TVL-13-CCD-110-Degree-2_8mm-Lens-Mini-FPV-Camera-NTSC-PAL-Switchable-p-1053340.html?rmmds=mywishlist&cur_warehouse=CN
Eachine pro DVR - £14.03 (9.5g)
https://www.banggood.com/Eachine-ProDVR-Pro-DVR-Mini-Video-Audio-Recorder-for-FPV-Multicopters-p-1061196.html?rmmds=mywishlist
Matek FC + PDU - £28.06 (15.5g tot)
https://www.banggood.com/Matek-F405-OSD-BetaFlight-STM32F405-Flight-Controller-Matek-FCHUB-6S-Hub-Power-Distribution-Board-p-1194724.html?rmmds=mywishlist&cur_warehouse=CN
ESC's - 30A Blheli_S - £24.95 (36.4g tot)
https://www.banggood.com/4X-Racerstar-RS30A-30A-Blheli_S-OPTO-2-4S-ESC-Support-Oneshot42-Multishot-for-FPV-Racing-p-1064326.html?rmmds=mywishlist

total £77.17 (71.8g)

Or roll all of the above into this Eachine Stack-X F4 for £5.48 more but saving 27.8g?  :shrug:
https://www.banggood.com/Eachine-Stack-X-F4-Flytower-F4-Flight-Controller-Built-in-VTX-OSD-1080P-DVR-4-In-1-35A-Dshot600-ESC-p-1210911.html?rmmds=mywishlist&cur_warehouse=CN

Frsky XM+ 16ch sbus receiver - £10.13 (1.6g)
https://www.banggood.com/Frsky-XM-Micro-D16-SBUS-Full-Range-Receiver-Up-to-16CH-p-1110020.html?rmmds=mywishlist&cur_warehouse=CN


Then for the Frame, Motors and Props:
 
Either


Zmr 250 Clone - £9.88 (141g)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/QAV250-H250-ZMR250-250mm-Full-Carbon-Fiber-4-Axis-FPV-Quadcopter-Frame-Shell-Kit/292009148154?hash=item43fd19fefa:g:W0sAAOSw65FXv6UH

2205/2300kv motors - £23.39 (112g)
https://www.banggood.com/4X-Racerstar-2205-BR2205-2300KV-2-4S-Brushless-Motor-2-CW-2-CCW-For-QAV250-ZMR250-260-Multirotor-p-1066837.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CN

Props - The Dal 5 x 4.5 x 3's i have a few sets of already.

Or this:
Maybe this is available in a 250 size, but couldnt find one!

Q330 mini frame - £10.38 (164g)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Q330-Mini-4-Axis-FPV-RC-Drone-Quadcopter-Frame-Kit-325mm-Wheelbase-Black-Red/192299518624?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

2216/1400kv motors - 2 pair £15.12 (264g)
Racerstar 2216, 1400KV]https://www.banggood.com/Racerstar-Racing-Edition-2216-BR2216-1400KV-2-4S-Brushless-Motor-For-350-380-400-450-Frame-Kit-p-1083208.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CN] Racerstar 2216, 1400KV

8045 props - £1.67 (2 pair £3.34)
https://www.banggood.com/Gemfan-8045-Carbon-Nylon-Propeller-EPP-For-RC-Quadcopter-Multirotor-p-961060.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CN

Ok, so i pick things up pretty quick but i'm sure i've managed to get something wrapped round my head by now!

I'm kinda assuming that the tx is the same as an old style one atm, as long as the rx has enough channels all you do is put the same crystal in each... well set them to the correct channel! Am I correct in assuming this?


ZRM estimated total :
Cost £120.57 + odds n ends
approx Weight 326.4g

Q330 estimated total
Cost £116.14 + odds n ends
Approx Weight 501.4g

looks like thats answered my own question about flight times... I suppose the Q330 will chew through batteries a load faster being larger motors and near 200g heavier!

I need to double check but i think the Runner weighed in somewhere around 450g without battery!

Offline VaNDAL_UK

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Re: Runner 250r Un-build!
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2017, 13:19:33 »
Personally I think you complicating matters! Keep it simple. You have the 250R use it for what it is. To get flying! Buy the spares fix it and fly. Get back on the horse!  ~~

I started with a 250 PRO (No acro mode) Donned the FPV and hammered it till I could fly.

I would suggest having another build on the side but you main focus is getting flying and competent at it not sitting at a bench building. All that will come naturally! Get the basics done first! With any luck you will out grow the 250R in a month.

Buy parts, buy batteries!
Emaxx NightHawk 250 (Waiting to be delivered)
Emaxx NightHawk 250 CC3D Evo 
Walkera Runner 250 PRO
FatShark Predator V2
Eachine VT800

Offline atomiclama

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Re: Runner 250r Un-build!
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2017, 13:36:12 »
Don't go for the bigger heavier stuff until you can fly well. The props will break pretty much on every crash and you will get disheartened.

Stick to the smaller more robust stuff.
Wasdale X, Ow that hurt

Offline fix3r

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Re: Runner 250r Un-build!
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2017, 14:12:31 »
Personally I think you complicating matters! Keep it simple. You have the 250R use it for what it is. To get flying! Buy the spares fix it and fly. Get back on the horse!  ~~

I started with a 250 PRO (No acro mode) Donned the FPV and hammered it till I could fly.

I would suggest having another build on the side but you main focus is getting flying and competent at it not sitting at a bench building. All that will come naturally! Get the basics done first! With any luck you will out grow the 250R in a month.

Buy parts, buy batteries!

Runner is back in the air now, just minus the cam. Which i'll replace when it's back in stock as I liked being able to record my flights (when I remember the sd card)
Either your Mrs is very forgiving or you don't have one, if it's in pieces again I'll probably get an arse kicking and be grounded for a month! Lol
Yea the build was to be on the side as a bad weather project... After all it will be the New Year before anything arrives from BG!
I would need the most help with firmware side as that's the bit I'm totally useless with. Hands on building should be a breeze, I'm pretty good with that kinda stuff!

Not trying to dismiss your advice, but i'd rather try to avoid buying parts for the runner if i can! They are very expensive and as you know not very user friendly in that respect!
I will still be flying it and learning, dw about that  ;) having a blast!  ::)

Don't go for the bigger heavier stuff until you can fly well. The props will break pretty much on every crash and you will get disheartened.

Stick to the smaller more robust stuff.
My thinking was that the 330 frame just looked substantially more robust, only reason I stopped at that one tbh. But if it's then gonna be broken props every 10 mins I see your point lol
 I dont think i was doing too bad with props. Only 2 sets broken after a fair few near misses and clips on things. Those vids being the only breakages to date!

 Kick that idea into touch then and ill stick with looking at cheap 250 frames.

Offline fix3r

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Re: Runner 250r Un-build!
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2017, 13:04:28 »
For the sake of putting a cheap camera on the Runner just for the purposes of recording my flights...
Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/382249746426

I'm about to order some original props and the gps mount from the same place selling this and just wondered if it would be worth a go?

I am still waiting on the original Walkera camera to come back in stock,  at £40 its pretty reasonable. But elsewhere its between £70 - £90 which seems to be taking the biscuit just a little (which would also explain why it is out of stock)!

The camera on mine is the one that has an sd slot, i think i could get away with using the basic runner cam (thats pretty cheap around £20) if i were to use it solely for fpv!
Which i could go with if i then used a cam like the above for recording!
« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 13:10:35 by fix3r »

Offline shawdreamer

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Re: Runner 250r Un-build!
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2017, 14:20:09 »
Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/382249746426
If you dont mind Feckawful visual quality then yer go for it.

watch a couple of youtube reviews on it, it gets properly slated 9/10 times

you could use a eachine DVR AIO cam, gives you record function and fpv back till you get the walkera one in stock again.

cant really knock it at £14 and if its image is the same as the TX01/02/03 AIO from Eachine then its a pretty decent package at the asking price.
https://www.banggood.com/Eachine-DTX03-DVR-5_8G-72CH-025mW50mW200mW-Switchable-VTX-w-Audio-NTSCPAL-p-1141123.html?rmmds=search&cur_warehouse=CN
550 custom H-copter
zmr250
Reaper250 V.1
Reaper250 V.2
ViceVersa250 XL
zmr250Hybrid
250 Twinboard
Dji Spark clone
https://www.thingiverse.com/shawdreamer/designs