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Author Topic: looking for help  (Read 469 times)

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Offline wiitard

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looking for help
« on: October 10, 2017, 19:11:56 »
not sure where to ask but...

i have been droning for about 6 months now, first started with a micro then moved to the syma x5c, i love that thing. recently i have taken a liking to freestyling looks so slick and free, now with a tight budget i wanted to build a drone for this. how much would be a good guide line for a cheap build with the option to upgrade in the future.

the fpv mode can be a miss dont mind if that would be a miss but would be good to record.

the transmiter i was thinking of the flysky fs i6 for 35 quid would this have idle mode/acro etc and different flight modes...

if anyone could recommend a cheap build that would be great



Offline Cheredanine

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Re: looking for help
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2017, 20:39:48 »
Hi and  :welcome:

Majority if pilots are fpv I encounter. Certainly if you want to film from the quad fpv is vital.

Suggest you take a drive round the 250buid section of the forum, take a look at some builds and find one you like

Online ched999uk

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Re: looking for help
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2017, 20:41:01 »
:welcome:
Have a look in the 250 build section. There are lots of builds. My Martian3 is there with a complete list of bits with prices and links. I use an i6 and find it great.

There are rumours about registration and passing an online test to fly anything over 250gms including battery!!!!
So might be worth looking at the builds by Cheredanine as he has some great sub250gms builds.

For freestyle I believe most people fly fpv and in acro mode. This is very different to what you are used to but if you get an adapter you can plug your tx into a pc and practice with a sim like FPVFreerider (free demo version full one £7 ish).

Happy flying and ask if you have any questions or when you get a build list together.

Cheredanine  beat me to it  :smiley:

Offline wiitard

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Re: looking for help
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2017, 07:28:54 »
Thanks for the replies, after reading in the 250 forum I realised it is more complicated than I thought, while really having no idea what I'm doing at the moment, so I was looking at a couple of cheap ones to get me started, does anyone know if the bug 6 is any good to start with, at only 70 pound won't lose much of I crash out, and would this be compatible with the flysky i6 controller I want to get.

Offline insx

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Re: looking for help
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2017, 10:00:54 »
If you are going with a cheap ready built quad, at least try to get something with a carbon fibre frame with a standard flight controller, ESCs, motors and props so that you can replace anything that breaks in a crash.

I can't see any indication that the Bug 6 will work with a Flysky and it looks fairly horrible, to be honest. I started out with an Eachine Racer so I know a thing or two about regretting that first purchase.

Online ched999uk

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Re: looking for help
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2017, 14:10:54 »
I will probably get shot for this but for less than £200 you can get this: https://goo.gl/6QpDZn. It comes with an i6 (slightly different stickers), a battery (ok not best but gets you going) and a charger (again not great but works). You do also get a good few spare props not that they are great props.

While it isn't using great components it is OK and is built for you! All you would need is some goggles like ev800 at £42 https://goo.gl/Z8qow9 or vr d2 pro https://goo.gl/abAihM which also records footage and you can do fpv!

It is always better to build yourself as you then know how it all goes together so you can repair.
Have a search on the wizard on youtube. There are 2 versions the S is the newer better one. Just be aware that when the s came out it was not carbon fibre frame, it is now, so stronger than it was.

Hope that helps. PS don't worry about knowing nothing, its where most of us started. We will help.

Offline wiitard

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Re: looking for help
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2017, 17:12:41 »
thanks for that, i did see the wizard but not the 220 s version, is there much difference between the 2??

as for the fpv side of things would it be possible to wtach through my phone, i got the headset for it which i use occasionally for games etc but if i could get the signal through to my phone that could save me some as a short term thing

Offline Cheredanine

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Re: looking for help
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2017, 17:50:14 »
I assume the problem is budget.
A phone won’t do it, you can get cheap goggles for around the £50 mark,
I would suggest getting the quad and radio and flying line of sight until you can afford he goggles, it will take a while anyway to get used to it

Offline wiitard

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Re: looking for help
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2017, 19:04:34 »
Yeah the budget plays a big part more so being this side of Xmas, kinda shame phone wouldn't work, think I might wait till next year and just continue to play on my syma

Offline SLFLY

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Re: looking for help
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2017, 22:35:08 »
not sure where to ask but...

i have been droning for about 6 months now, first started with a micro then moved to the syma x5c, i love that thing. recently i have taken a liking to freestyling looks so slick and free, now with a tight budget i wanted to build a drone for this. how much would be a good guide line for a cheap build with the option to upgrade in the future.

the fpv mode can be a miss dont mind if that would be a miss but would be good to record.

the transmiter i was thinking of the flysky fs i6 for 35 quid would this have idle mode/acro etc and different flight modes...

if anyone could recommend a cheap build that would be great

What's your max budget ?

Yes the Flysky i6 can do that. The Acro/flight modes etc are all done by the flight controller board via software like Cleanflight,Betaflight which you install on a pc/mac and connect via usb to modify. From there you configure and program the switches to do what you want on the i6 controller. The i6 has 6 channels out of the box. 4 of those are used by the 2 joysticks leaving 2 spare channels to program. However you can buy the i6 usb data cable and you can update the firmware (free download) to unlock 10 channels so that gives you another 4 switches. There is another update that adds a on-screen timer and multiple alarms to the parameters like distance,RSSI etc. Which increases the functionality of the i6 quite abit.

The Flysky i6 is a good value entry level transmitter. And has plenty of Flysky receiver options that work with it. I think it's well worth £34 with the included FS-iA6B receiver bundle (can be found cheaper with discount codes). Hard to go wrong really.

Thanks for the replies, after reading in the 250 forum I realised it is more complicated than I thought, while really having no idea what I'm doing at the moment, so I was looking at a couple of cheap ones to get me started, does anyone know if the bug 6 is any good to start with, at only 70 pound won't lose much of I crash out, and would this be compatible with the flysky i6 controller I want to get.

The Bugs 6 is a good value brushless quad for the price and a sporty flyer but it doesn't have the ability to switch into acro mode. It's only has two flight modes. Slow and fast. It's other flight characteristics are fixed. So probably not what you are looking for. But you could ofcourse stick a £15 AIO (all in one) fpv camera on it and transmit the image to some goggles/screen and still have plenty of fun. It can probably lift a small action camera too if you made a custom mount. It is limited to a 2S battery so all out power, speed and tricks are not it's selling point. It's really only a sporty cruiser that has a good 15 minute flight time. Still good to learn on but not a true racer.  You can certainly race it but don't expect to be coming first. It still puts any toy grade quad to shame. It would still be a big step up from your Syma X5. The Bugs 6 controller cannot be changed to an i6 either. And the parts are mostly proprietary to MJX. So not really upgradable. Though they are fairly inexpensive to replace which is a plus. The Bugs 6 (quadcopter,controller,battery bundle) can be found on ebay for under £53 which is a steal and probably the best value RTF (ready to fly) brushless quad package.
http://goo.gl/ztP9xf



thanks for that, i did see the wizard but not the 220 s version, is there much difference between the 2??

as for the fpv side of things would it be possible to wtach through my phone, i got the headset for it which i use occasionally for games etc but if i could get the signal through to my phone that could save me some as a short term thing

Read this review about the X220S. It gives a good overview of the differences.
http://blog.dronetrest.com/eachine-wizard-x220s

It is possible to turn your smartphone into a FPV screen using a Eachine-ROTG01 (Android) as long as the phone supports OTG.

or the Eachine R051 (Iphone/ipad) but this has not been released yet.

So it's an option, but most people prefer to use a dedicated fpv screen or goggles. 

Eachine VR-007 Pro goggles are worth a look for around £33 and are decent enough for beginners. The screen is big and looks better than you would think considering the low resolution specs. I doubt they would hold you back.

If you want acro flying, and prebuilt then the ARF (almost ready to fly) micro racing quads (under 150mm) might be what you looking for. But even those are starting at around £75-£100 upwards. Not exactly amazing bargains when you can buy the V1 Wizard X220 for £109.

Yeah the budget plays a big part more so being this side of Xmas, kinda shame phone wouldn't work, think I might wait till next year and just continue to play on my syma

If you want to keep the cost down to the maximum you'll get the best deal if you buy a ZMR250 Naze32 quadcopter kit from Aliexpress like this for £40
http://goo.gl/eF3tVM

I dont think you will find a better deal than this. Obviously if you buy the kit you need to do some soldering and work out how all the parts go together. But every guide you need to help you do it is on Youtube. Building it from scratch will be an excellent learning process and by the end you'll fully understand the inn's and outs of the quad and how to repair it. As you eventually get deeper into the hobby. You'll soon want/need to know how to build your own quad. Why not jump right in at the deep end ? It's really not as complicated as it looks.

Remember you'll also need to buy batteries and some XT60 connectors which are not included in the kit. And fpv camera/antenna also not included.

The ZMR250 can be bought fully assembled for £74 including postage
http://goo.gl/ckZH6a



« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 19:42:05 by SLFLY »

Offline SLFLY

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Re: looking for help
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2017, 02:38:34 »
Another good deal. The MJX Bugs 3 is currently on offer on pre-order at BG. Use code 25fpvquad to bring the price to £50
https://www.banggood.com/MJX-Bugs-3-Brushless-Independent-ESC-3D-Roll-for-Gopro-3-Gopro-4-RC-Quadcopter-RTF-p-1096795.html?rmmds=myorder

This is said to fly faster than the Bugs 6.

Offline wiitard

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Re: looking for help
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2017, 14:06:59 »
Just like to say thanks for the detailed reply, that naze does look good, so with that and a controller it would be under 100 until I get the fpv sorted, though Los flying in my local fields is still fun,

How can I tell what flight controller can do what, such as the rate /acro etc not sure how many modes there are,

Online ched999uk

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Re: looking for help
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2017, 14:32:21 »
Just like to say thanks for the detailed reply, that naze does look good, so with that and a controller it would be under 100 until I get the fpv sorted, though Los flying in my local fields is still fun,

How can I tell what flight controller can do what, such as the rate /acro etc not sure how many modes there are,
The ZMR250 Naze32 is old technology. It must be over 2 years old at minimum if not 4!!! technology moves very fast in this hobby. Some 'moves' are sort of diminishing returns. The Naze32 will do rate,and stabilised flight mode no problem. Just to let you know BetaFlight (currently most popular FlightController software wont support the Naze32 after the current version, not that that would be an issue to you really).
You will also need a charger and batteries.

About 4 years ago I bought a very similar kit from AliExpress. I built it and it all worked but boy was it difficult to fly. So much so that I gave up! A year later I got a F450 with a Naza controller (not Naze but DJI Naza). It was much bigger and so easy to fly. I flew it for about a year and in Sept I completed a small 220 size build (in build section if interested). It was not cheap, even thought I was trying to keep a relatively low budget. WOW the difference between the ZMR250 and the new Martian3 220 is amazing. Some of it will be due to my increasing my skills from the F450 but it is so much easier to fly.
It might be better to get the controller and a usb cable and get lots of practice in on a sim especially as it's winter soon. Then save up over winter and get something a bit more modern.

Offline SLFLY

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Re: looking for help
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2017, 17:31:25 »
Another bundle worth looking at is the QAV250 Pro (Luminor QAV250 clone). It comes with a more up to date SP F3 flight controller + better Emax motors (these cost £10 each to buy) and LittleBee 20A ESC's + 1000TVL FPV camera and transmitter for under £64

http://goo.gl/WXeTjA


And this AKASO bundle. It comes with everything to get started. The quad, controller, 1800mah battery, charger, fpv camera and transmitter,  and a monitor - all for £76.  Only drawback is the older FC and the transmitter has limited programmability. And the monitor is on the small side.

http://goo.gl/MCrpNi

Review
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4n6bp7_akaso-f250a-fpv-rc-racing-drones-qav-250-cc3d-flight-controller-review_tech

I think the QAV250 Pro is the best deal as a race package.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 19:41:19 by SLFLY »

Offline SLFLY

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Re: looking for help
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2017, 17:49:49 »
edit
« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 17:53:11 by SLFLY »

Offline wiitard

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Re: looking for help
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2017, 19:49:01 »
for that price it seems great, i know im gonna crash it a few times but it seems the parts are interchangeable, but the base is there for what i need thanks for that, is there anyway to tell what would be compatiable with what, like if i decided to upgrade motors or FC if it would work with the rest etc..

again how hard would it be to change to a new transmiteron this model

Offline Cheredanine

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Re: looking for help
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2017, 22:33:24 »
Sorry to jump in and no offence but that thing is a heap of trash. It is mostly cheap Chinese clones of very old kit much of which had issues anyway. There is a reason it is cheap, that is because anyone who knows what they are doing won’t buy it. It is just a bad idea. No offence to the poster

Offline SLFLY

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Re: looking for help
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2017, 23:50:32 »
No offence taken mate. More viewpoints are better than one. You probably have alot more experience than me in the field. Can you tell us which model your talking about that you think is trash ?  The QAV250 pro kit to me doesn't look that bad spec wise. The weak area's could always be upgraded. The AKASO kit would obviously have some bad points about it to get the price that low. I'll admit it probably wont be the greatest quad ever but bound to be better than a X5. What would be your recommendation to get started ? Should the OP spend more or go for something cheap ?
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 00:02:10 by SLFLY »

Offline SLFLY

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Re: looking for help
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2017, 23:52:15 »
edit

Offline Cheredanine

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Re: looking for help
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2017, 23:58:33 »
Actually both.
Neither quad is a qav250 clone, despite the description, I suspect neither are pure carbon.
On the first one the flight controller is an sprf3 clone, the sprf3 is a couple of years old, it was one of the first f3 flight controllers. It’s main problems are - use if jst connectors which tend to break, gyro has bad noise flaw, gyro connectivity is i2c, should be spi. That is for an origional, the Chinese clones carry their own raft of cack QC and cheap surface mount components.
The escs are Littlebee 20amp blheli, again a couple of years old. Won’t run serial protocols.
I am dubious that the motors are probably emax red bottom clones which are now ledgendry as haveing the durability and balance of wet cardboard.
The combination of littlebees and red bottoms had unparalleled reputation for noise and the worst possible fc to have that problem on is the sprf3.
He cam is one of the old board cams, ok in their day but not as good as a modern swift or arrow by a long shot
The second is just mah!

Op can get something cheap that is good
Even for a first quad, a qav210 pure carbon clone frame from banggood cost about £20depending on what day if the month it is.
Spedix es25 escs cost about 7 quid each. You can get a good f3or f4 for 30 quid, a hs1177 for 20odd, there are several decent vtx quite cheap atm, motors are a little harder but cobra champion 2205 2300kv or brother tornado 2206 2300 are not hugely expensive and are very good.
And flysky radio and reciever and a cheap set of box goggles and you have an economy build that flies far better than those, that is considerably more robust, saving money or crash damage and that can easily be repaired.

Just curious as you are clearly new to the forum, but a lot of the stuff you are pointing out (including the zmx) is what people were flying three or more years ago, are you new or are you returning?
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 00:09:40 by Cheredanine »

Offline SLFLY

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Re: looking for help
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2017, 02:34:24 »
I am new to these boards. I am aware the suggestions above have been on the market for some years and are not exactly cutting edge or the latest and greatest. I posted them mainly because they are just geared towards keeping the costs down. I got the impression the OP didnt have a massive amount to spend by suggesting he might leave until it till next year. The OP hasnt said his budget so we have no idea what is in his range. He said he wanted something cheap. The quads above are cheap. Are they worth buying ? well i have ordered the QAV250 Pro kit out of curiosity so i'll see how bad it truly is or not.

I also with agree with what your saying and going the custom piece by piece route. There are plenty of good deals and bits to be found. That will almost certainly pay off better in the end for a far better quad. It could just take longer to research and figure out what's worth buying and about individual brands/models/parts etc and which are good/bad. But ultimately worth doing. Custom builds generally end up costing more and the process can take longer than originally planned. The options i posted are short cuts to getting in air and flying quicker possibly with the least hassle. Which i know may not be the best choice in the long term.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 05:58:25 by SLFLY »

Offline SLFLY

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Re: looking for help
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2017, 02:35:59 »
edit

Offline SLFLY

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Re: looking for help
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2017, 05:56:24 »
edit

Offline wiitard

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Re: looking for help
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2017, 08:17:02 »
i done a little online shopping of the parts you suggested it comes to £190 i think that was without a battery, which almost triple the amount of that akaso, while i know you said the parts are old, it would be something great i can work on, yes there is always better options out there, but bare in mind im still flying a syma x5c while i still love anything would be an upgrade, so i have opted to go with the akaso to learn fpv style,

in time i could give it an upgrade different motors, work on it bit by bit, which i know will cost more in the long run, but at least i got something a little faster to fly and learn for now

Offline Cheredanine

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Re: looking for help
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2017, 11:30:31 »
It isn’t just the age mate, it is crapmstuff from 2years ago that couldn’t sell then, that is why it is cheap now. It also less than robust it is gonna break easily and you are gonna be trying to find replacement,ent parts for stuff from 2years ago in a hobby where a month is a long time. That is a false economy.

It is of course, up to you, but I expect if you get that within a week it will be in the back of a cupboard with a broken arm.

I hate to suggest it, but an eachine wizard is a far better choice than either of those.

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Re: looking for help
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2017, 21:43:13 »
Yeah the budget plays a big part more so being this side of Xmas, kinda shame phone wouldn't work, think I might wait till next year and just continue to play on my syma
Continue to play with the syma. Then buy the Flysky i6 and a usb adapter as your xmas pressy and get lots of sim practice in on FPVFreerider.
That way you can get something that will be so much better and easier to fly in the new year. Lets face it UK weather not great for flying over the winter. So by spring you will be ready and raring to go.